In 2011, the Sister Wives Blog started out as a place to talk about the TLC reality show "Sister Wives", Kody Brown and his wives Christine, Robyn, Meri and Janelle. Today we not only discuss the show, we discuss Polygamy in our society, and the public perceptions of the Mormon Religion. We discuss "Polygamy USA" and will be covering "My 5 Wives."
This blog is geared towards the adult reader, so please, no one under the age of 18 years. Thank you!
Just getting ready to watch this- will add my comment later.They are certainly trying to steal the spotlight of the Browns. Troy said their book was a bore- let's see if this is!
The Darger's have made the comment SEVERAL times abt. one holding hands, him seeing a co-worker, and having to drop a wife's hand. I love my husband DEARLY after 25 years and 6 kids. However, I have no need to hold his hand walking through a mall. I did that also with 6 kids for 25 years. I am happy to walk free. It's sad to me, in a way, these women LOOK forward to this little time together like it was gold. If you are together all the time, such little touching wouldn't be a big deal
Hmmm.... I don't know where to start with my thoughts after seeing this and reading their book. I guess I'll start with their book.
The book.... I read it and felt that it didn't go deep enough into their relationships. It was like I was reading a magazine article about how they met and how they were married. Luckily, I have a great library I go to where I can request books to be added, though this one had already been ordered and on the new list of books available to read. I wouldn't waste my money getting this one for study on polygamy. After reading Flora's, Irene's and others on their experiences involving polygamy, this one was a let down. I thought I would get a more so called modern look at polygamy. But when it came down to it, their story was the same as those that got out of it through the years. The same feelings that every woman's story of polygamy that I had read was also in their book except for abuse. None of the Dargers had mentioned any kind of abuse that I can recall in their book. I wish they had really gone more in depth with their book.
One thing that I have noticed that the Browns and the Dargers have mentioned is that they tell their kids they have a choice whether or not to live polygamy when they become of age. I have a problem with this because the children are being taught a religion that involves polygamy as a way to reach the highest exaltation. Also, what do the children really know about monogamy when they are not exposed to it on a personal level such as having monogamous parents. There is no way that children can learn how to have intimacy in their relationships if the parents have to watch how they act towards each other so the other sister wives won't get their feelings hurt or become jealous. But, after seeing this and the Brown show, the only thing that the daughters are learning is how to shut down their feelings and be guarded how they feel when all the sister wives and the husband is in the same room. Ugh......
The Dargers presented themselves as genuinely sweet, loving people who put their family first...after God, that is (their belief in what God wants them to do). It does seem that they receive a lot of solace in their relationships with each other and with their idea of God.
Having said that, it is sad that they feel it is right to be in a one-sided relationship -- meaning it would be more fair if the women were also allowed (by their God) to have a love relationship with each other (in whatever form worked for them - although sister-type love for the two that are actual sisters, of course)
.. OR were able to have a relationship with another man to fulfill the void left by their part-time husband.
However, these options would add a lot of complexity to an already complex family life (24 children?!!) I confess I have difficulty giving my two children enough attention.
it was boring and predictable w/plyg wives once again telling about their jealous moments and how they have to overcome that weakness.
i felt sad and ill at ease listening to the small children (5-10) talking about how they've had to keep it a secret and how they worry about their dad going to jail. that's so wrong to make adult choices/issues become the child's problem to deal with. very emotionally abusive. and the dad said he was surprised to hear them talk about that. geez. how out of touch and oblivious to what effect that would obviously have on a small child.
but, of course, the lesson we're supposed to get is how that's OUR (society's) fault the children have to do that. not the fault of the parents choice for choosing to break a law that would force their children to deal with.
I felt sad listening to the little girl say, "I want to live it when I grow up", and listening to a newlywed talk about "God opening her heart" at some point to another wife. I think the Dargers are loving and well-intentioned people, but I cry for their children.
Rayne said: "There is no way that children can learn how to have intimacy in their relationships if the parents have to watch how they act towards each other so the other sister wives won't get their feelings hurt or become jealous."
I agree! I believe that children of highly religious families, or any family where the parents can't or don't kiss and hug each other spontaneously and genuinely, often won't learn to be able to publicly express their own feelings with their significant other(s). There should not be shame in respectful PDA's.
Anonymous 10:50 - I agree that the family should be more discrete and not allow the young children to know and worry about their father going to jail.
The kids all seemed very quiet and low-key but then so are the parents so perhaps they just contrast the Browns who seem to be more extroverted and inviting of "drama".
I don't agree with the statement that we are not at fault for creating a society that is critical of people living different lifestyle... we are to blame. But unfortunately, even with the best parenting, sometimes kids are insecure and get cruel with other kids. However, prejudice is not to be tolerated nor defended.
As for them choosing to break the law, well in a free country, laws are meant to be challenged. Sometimes laws are outdated or not constitutional - as I believe this one is.
With the Darger's, I believe their would be added jealousy from the wife that is not related. How unfair is that to her? And those kids are not only cousins but siblings, EEEK!
I take issue with the Darger's saying that Teachers made fun of the kids. I was a teacher and NO WAY would a teacher feel that way, nor do it to a child. For one thing, when you are in their (a teachers) classroom, they are protective of you. NOT BELIEVABLE. A teacher could be fired for that.
Yoyo said: "..I believe there would be added jealousy from the wife that is not related. How unfair is that to her?"
I think she signed up for that. From what I understand, it is not unusual for a man to marry sisters in polygamy (correct me if I am wrong) so wives entering this type of relationship do so knowing future wives are a possibility and that there is always a chance the wife will be a sister or relative of one of the current sister wives (this is a relatively small community, when you think about it.)
What is unfair is the way parents condition their kids to fear God (or God's wrath; fear created in religious beliefs or ignorance.
This show I think adresses on the jealousy factor more than the Browns, the wives here are clearly not okay with sharing him to the point of trying to mentally block images out, or having emotional outbursts that some kids probably witness. I honestly do not judge these families with multiple wives but I would not feel comfortable with my children going to their home for a sleepover. I just think other children may not react in a positive way to watching a Dad walk in from work and kiss 3 women, unless they are raised that way of course.
..Just to continue on about kids fearing God.. the point I wanted to make is how can you say you are giving them a choice when you are also telling them they will not see you in heaven (or whatever their plan is) if the children do not enter poly marriages.
It is kind of like me telling my children they can choose not to be vegetarian like me.. but they know I disapprove of meat eating and therefore I would disapprove of them on some level.
Yet there is a difference between these situations because I am not teaching them that God will disapprove of them eating meat and they will be shunned in the afterlife... That is a pretty heavy trip.
@ Yoyo Eeek I just realized that they are cousins and siblings that much be odd... & yes this religion is not as popular so wives are sometimes chosen right from the same family again odd. Asking a man much older and wiser than you to take your 2 daughters hands in marriage *shivers* that day better never come for me or a slap in the face will be winding in my right hand.
@ Catherine I completely understand what you are saying and agree it seems like they are giving them whatever life they choose with a price. Seeing their oldest daughter (looking around 19-22yr) saying if god wants it and wants her husband to take more wives then thats what will happen, again *shiver* Newlyweds should not think "Wonder when god will ask him to choose another wife or when he will get bored of me and go looking for another." Just my opinion.
I think this is a good family with the wrong religion. They were all brought up in it. However, they are really nice people, not a mess like the Browns. They truly have church in their home, and are very religious. Browns, not so much.
Catherine not always so great said.... What is unfair is the way parents condition their kids to fear God (or God's wrath; fear created in religious beliefs or ignorance.
Sadly, I felt I was taught that in the Christian church. I remember thinking I was "sinning" and a sinner, and not good enough to go to church, and only in my 20's figured out that GOD is LOVE.
If they change the laws, that also let's people like Jeffs and the others that inter breed, what is that one? (They only breed with their own family, incl. daughters, etc a sect of the FLDS)
Utah doesn't prosecute. Browns were stupid for leaving, esp. Meri's mom being there!
I haven't paid much attention to the Dargers. Are they, for the more knowledgeable, more tied to their religion than the Browns? Kody's "acting" of preaching is sad, and the whole family looked uncomfortable, kids coloring and playing around, whereas with the Dargers, it seemed like it was a usual thing, everyone attentive. I thought it as sad in 3 minutes of filming, Robyn's kids had to color!!! They are too old for that in my book, sorry. I know many allow their kids to do that. Mine didn't and I learned the church was a place of respect.
Anon 4:36 - Whether or not the law is changed, I feel that certain religious, polygamous groups will still keep themselves closed to outsiders. Abuse will still go on and still not be dealt with regardless of the legality.
Anon 4:38 - I believe you are referring to the Kingstons, they believe they are direct descendants or have the pure bloodline of Jesus Christ. So they only interbreed within the family. But, I also believe other sects tend to interbreed because of limited members of their faith.
I'm making a superficial comment here first off: I think that this father is much more attractive than Kody Brown and seemed more, how can I say this...down to earth and easy going. Nice that he is bald to as no hair got in the way of the interview at all. I do like the show Sister Wives but am not at all religious. I do love to learn about what others believe and this family seemed a bit more open to discussing that. This family, compare to the Browns, is easier on the eyes and there I go again being superficial. Sorry about that. Anyhow, I think this interview was more calm than any I've seen with Kody's crew. It might sound like I don't like Kody or his gang but, I really do like them. I wouldn't mind seeing a show about a day in this family's life to compare with the Browns.
My name is Lisa and not "Unknown." Still not that familiar with blogs and how to change this but at least I can comment.
I meant to say "Nice that he is bald "TOO" don't know why I used the wrong version of the word and I felt the need to correct it but editing was TOO late, lol. Lisa
This is probably the most "normal" (maybe modern is a better word?) polygamous family that I've seen yet. I would love to ask a polygamous family their thoughts on the gay marriage debates and, if polygamy is legalized, what exactly the law would look like and whether it would include other family structures as well.
There's something about this family that bugs me. They just seem too perfect. They're definitely hoping to cash in, IMO.
I was thinking about sister wives and it seems like 2 would be a bad number, since you're always alone when the husband is with the other wife. With 3, though, I'd imagine that 2 wives could gang up on the other. Four may be better, though, it probably ends up being 2 and 2.
"As for them choosing to break the law, well in a free country, laws are meant to be challenged. Sometimes laws are outdated or not constitutional - as I believe this one is."
_____________________________________ So when can we meet for a televised debate? I have a lot to say about this.
"laws are meant to be challenged." LOGIC FAIL. Laws are definitely not made to be challenged. These people are felons. There are a lot of felons, you know.
I hope they cuff this jerk and throw him in jail. These men are such selfish pigs. It's disgusting.
The Dargers are an independent Mormon fundamentalist family, although Valerie was married to a polygamist in that group prior to marrying Joe Darger. So as always, there are close family ties among Mormon fundamentalists. The independent ones claim to follow no authority, which seems pretty puzzling for Mormon fundamentalism, but it's another indication that it's all just a cover-up for things going on underneath, and few of them even realize that they've just been drawn into a scam.
When laws are in place to protect human rights, challenging them is going to involve prison time. We're not going to budge on that. The right to be free from these risks is what is paramount; not some illusory "parental right," which can never supersede an individual right.
"I would love to ask a polygamous family their thoughts on the gay marriage debates and..." ____________________ I wouldn't expect an honest answer from any of them. The truth is too offensive. Mormon fundamentalists are actually some of the most homophobic people there are. But they'll exploit that platform if they think it will enable their own felonies.
I'm a little skeptical, since the Dargers have complained to the national press that they're in danger of being prosecuted.
First of all, that's a laugh. Here in Utah, just prosecuting the ones who marry little girls is practically impossible. Joe Darger is never going to have to face the law. Like the Browns, they're putting themselves out there for everyone to see and they're complaining about some of the attention. Don't take them seriously the way ABC News does. Those journalists are obviously in the dark about all of this.
Oh, and yes, I met the Dargers. I went to their book signing and asked a very uncomfortable question, and they and Brooke Adams gave a less-than-straightforward answer.
I knew they would. I wouldn't ask a question of these folks if it didn't have a bomb attached to it.
Troy! Isn't it aggravating to watch a news show like 20/20- and see the hosts have not done their homework, know nothing about polygamy, and ask the SAME ole same ole questions!
Yes, it's very frustrating. They just swallow up everything they're told, and then their audiences believe them, thinking that they journalists actually have some kind of inside knowledge. Nothing could be further from the truth. Getting a journalist to cover them who knows nothing about the matter is a little like just turning the show over to the Dargers, or Brooke Adams, to be more precise. She's the one who has training in writing. I'd like to see what the Dargers could have come up with on their own. I've seen what happens when Mormon fundamentalists try to handle that on their own. It ends up a little like the Jeffs trial.
That was disappointing, and made me wonder how many other shows I have watched thinking they were getting to the bottom of something and were not.
I feel if you are going to jump out there like the Dargers or Browns, you should be prepared to back up your church and beliefs. But both of them seem to RUN from questions. IF you want to be famous and have the big bucks.... it comes with the territory. Am I wrong here?
Hey Troy! enjoyed your third and most recent interview again with Doris. I wish more people here would go listen to those so you're not answering the same questions here or having to reiterate the same points here again and again.
so far, NO ONE has convinced me that polygamy is a super great and spiritual life to live. nor that it's even from God. I'm not talking just about the FLDS poor example of it either. Browns, Dargers, and the myriad of books and docs i've watched all spell the same disaster for women and children to me.
If it was God mandated, wouldn't he naturally make more girls than boys to begin with?? It's hard to believe he'd set us up to fail if it's a saving ordinance required to get into his highest heaven. It's not possible for everyone to practice it just based on the numbers of females to males so, some of us are just "naturally" screwed by God not making the numbers work to our benefit. lol
and i'm well aware of how JS wrote it up in the Doctrine and Covenants to threaten Emma into accepting it after he'd been hiding it all behind her back for several years. lol How Convenient!
I asked them how to explain why polygamy is fair when it casts off so many unmarried men. Brooke responded that in her experience, only a limited number of FLDS men actually practice it. She was proving my point, not answering my question. They quickly steered to another question.
You have given me food for thought, Troy. I believe I am leaning towards dispensing with legal marriage. Why force anyone to stay in a relationship that two (or whatever the number involved) are in. And why legalize people to get married in the first place? There are a lot of emotionally abused wives (and husbands) who feel pressured to stay married.
In some countries legal rights are based on co-habitation (common law marriages in Canada, for example).
I may have talked myself out of the argument for polygamy/polyandry so perhaps that just leaves polyamorous relationships with consenting adults.
Troy, your question to the Dargers was about whether polygamy was fair to the many unmarried men... But what about separating the religious beliefs from the polygamy question: for example, if polygamy was a choice people had if it felt right and important for the adults involved and not something they promoted to children as being mandated by God. Making it legal won't make everyone choose it.
Think about gay and lesbian people - they have the right to openly be who they are. Are they not an example of women limiting the available women out there (or gay men limiting the number of available men)? And what about the people who choose to be single?
When we say that people cannot have committed life partnerships with more than one person at a time it is restrictive and it would be restrictive to mandate that EVERYONE have to marry and and have two children... or better yet, one child, like China. (We have seen the terrible things happening to girls as a result of that law.)
You argue that a society of multiple wives cannot be supported by our population and therefore no one should be allowed this arrangement. Then we can argue that our planet cannot support so many people and no one (or perhaps every second couple?) should have only one child until a balance is reached. I am curious how the bloggers here would feel with that law.
I don't think anyone here is arguing the criminal injustice of brainwashing children to feel that polygamy is their only choice, and for the child bride problems, nor for the emotional abuse of women in marriages they feel forced to remain in... Can we move past these crimes and have a discussion about healthy relationships with consenting adults?
Catherine, are you for or against polygamy, I can never tell. Your not female attorney also, are you? I am getting confused with the personalities, with so many anonymouses, too!LOL
I'm new to the commenting world so this is kind of a test.
I really "enjoyed" Sister Wives until the hotel scene of the Browns go to College episode. Wow, disgusting. He can just go to any room as he pleases? What if he doesn't feel like seeing one of the wives at all ~ does he still visit her? Do the women get any say on if they WANT to see Kody?
I'm a 20 year old girl ~ I have no idea what marriage is really like, but I have been in a relationship with my boyfriend for 5 years and can't imagine "sharing" him with another woman.. first off sexually but I think more importantly emotionally! Of course the sister wives get jealous, because it's NOT RIGHT to see your spouse and "soulmate" loving another person. Ugh.
Alyssa, I agree that it is weird to have a husband flitting between wives bedrooms. Personally, under their circumstances, I think he should wait to be invited into their personal, intimate space otherwise it seems like the women are not empowered or equally respected.
And Tableturner, in answer to your questions I am not Female Attorney; and I am in a monogamous marriage. I have been intrigued by the premise of the Sister Wives show for many reasons. I am in my second marriage (first was young - age 23) and have, over the years learned more about myself and my idea of healthy relationships -- primarily that they are more about trust and commitment... but that it is unrealistic to expect feelings for another to last forever and for two people to necessarily fulfill the many rolls that people look for in their life companion (although these things CAN happen - just that it will often not be the case). The fact that we are usually growing and changing emotionally and spiritually also can cause people to have different needs in their significant others as time goes on.
So here I am watching the show and reading all that I can on this and other blogs/sites to learn about these examples of polygamy to see how it relates to me, and it is clear to me that I want laws to protect people from being forced into unhealthy relationships but I want people to be able to choose the types of relationships that are important to them as long as they are informed adults. (The Brown family is exposing their children to mainstream society so hopefully the children will be able to make informed choices)
To sum up, I am decidedly not an advocate of marriage - but I am an advocate of loving, considerate and committed relationships - and I personally am starting to be open to polyamorous relationship... but perhaps in the future. Still need to process my feelings on that.
The thought of 2 sisters being married & intimate with the same man, having children by him creating the sibling/cousin situation is beyond words of disgust. Some of the worst crimes in this world have been committed in the name of "religion" and even though we can't compare polygamy to terrorism, it certainly speaks to the indignity against women.
It is clear that Joe is practicing for his organization of his own planet ..Cody is practicing for playboy of the year...
Does anyone remember the episode where cody led "church services"? There is no hint that was true or that it is a regular pattern.. I wonder why they just do not join an LDS church there?? Everyone knows that there are poly families in the LDS they just look the other way...
The Darger's have made the comment SEVERAL times abt. one holding hands, him seeing a co-worker, and having to drop a wife's hand.
ReplyDeleteI love my husband DEARLY after 25 years and 6 kids. However, I have no need to hold his hand walking through a mall. I did that also with 6 kids for 25 years. I am happy to walk free. It's sad to me, in a way, these women LOOK forward to this little time together like it was gold. If you are together all the time, such little touching wouldn't be a big deal
I have been married for 32 yrs, and we have discovered the little joys like holding hands! Everyone differs.
DeleteHmmm.... I don't know where to start with my thoughts after seeing this and reading their book. I guess I'll start with their book.
ReplyDeleteThe book.... I read it and felt that it didn't go deep enough into their relationships. It was like I was reading a magazine article about how they met and how they were married. Luckily, I have a great library I go to where I can request books to be added, though this one had already been ordered and on the new list of books available to read. I wouldn't waste my money getting this one for study on polygamy. After reading Flora's, Irene's and others on their experiences involving polygamy, this one was a let down. I thought I would get a more so called modern look at polygamy. But when it came down to it, their story was the same as those that got out of it through the years. The same feelings that every woman's story of polygamy that I had read was also in their book except for abuse. None of the Dargers had mentioned any kind of abuse that I can recall in their book. I wish they had really gone more in depth with their book.
One thing that I have noticed that the Browns and the Dargers have mentioned is that they tell their kids they have a choice whether or not to live polygamy when they become of age. I have a problem with this because the children are being taught a religion that involves polygamy as a way to reach the highest exaltation. Also, what do the children really know about monogamy when they are not exposed to it on a personal level such as having monogamous parents. There is no way that children can learn how to have intimacy in their relationships if the parents have to watch how they act towards each other so the other sister wives won't get their feelings hurt or become jealous. But, after seeing this and the Brown show, the only thing that the daughters are learning is how to shut down their feelings and be guarded how they feel when all the sister wives and the husband is in the same room. Ugh......
The Dargers presented themselves as genuinely sweet, loving people who put their family first...after God, that is (their belief in what God wants them to do). It does seem that they receive a lot of solace in their relationships with each other and with their idea of God.
ReplyDeleteHaving said that, it is sad that they feel it is right to be in a one-sided relationship -- meaning it would be more fair if the women were also allowed (by their God) to have a love relationship with each other (in whatever form worked for them - although sister-type love for the two that are actual sisters, of course)
.. OR were able to have a relationship with another man to fulfill the void left by their part-time husband.
However, these options would add a lot of complexity to an already complex family life (24 children?!!) I confess I have difficulty giving my two children enough attention.
it was boring and predictable w/plyg wives once again telling about their jealous moments and how they have to overcome that weakness.
ReplyDeletei felt sad and ill at ease listening to the small children (5-10) talking about how they've had to keep it a secret and how they worry about their dad going to jail. that's so wrong to make adult choices/issues become the child's problem to deal with. very emotionally abusive. and the dad said he was surprised to hear them talk about that. geez. how out of touch and oblivious to what effect that would obviously have on a small child.
but, of course, the lesson we're supposed to get is how that's OUR (society's) fault the children have to do that. not the fault of the parents choice for choosing to break a law that would force their children to deal with.
Dargers don't impress me much.
I felt sad listening to the little girl say, "I want to live it when I grow up", and listening to a newlywed talk about "God opening her heart" at some point to another wife. I think the Dargers are loving and well-intentioned people, but I cry for their children.
DeleteI can't see the video. Is anyone else having this problem?
ReplyDeleteI watched it on TV last night but i just tried it for you and it works fine for me.
ReplyDeleteRayne said: "There is no way that children can learn how to have intimacy in their relationships if the parents have to watch how they act towards each other so the other sister wives won't get their feelings hurt or become jealous."
ReplyDeleteI agree! I believe that children of highly religious families, or any family where the parents can't or don't kiss and hug each other spontaneously and genuinely, often won't learn to be able to publicly express their own feelings with their significant other(s). There should not be shame in respectful PDA's.
Anonymous 10:50 - I agree that the family should be more discrete and not allow the young children to know and worry about their father going to jail.
ReplyDeleteThe kids all seemed very quiet and low-key but then so are the parents so perhaps they just contrast the Browns who seem to be more extroverted and inviting of "drama".
I don't agree with the statement that we are not at fault for creating a society that is critical of people living different lifestyle... we are to blame. But unfortunately, even with the best parenting, sometimes kids are insecure and get cruel with other kids. However, prejudice is not to be tolerated nor defended.
As for them choosing to break the law, well in a free country, laws are meant to be challenged. Sometimes laws are outdated or not constitutional - as I believe this one is.
They SEEM much more religious than the Browns. Sincere.
ReplyDeleteWith the Darger's, I believe their would be added jealousy from the wife that is not related. How unfair is that to her? And those kids are not only cousins but siblings, EEEK!
ReplyDeleteCynical, I see if fine.
I would rather watch the Durgers than the Browns on TV, much easier on the eyes. Also, they seem more sincere and unassuming.
ReplyDeleteI take issue with the Darger's saying that Teachers made fun of the kids.
ReplyDeleteI was a teacher and NO WAY would a teacher feel that way, nor do it to a child. For one thing, when you are in their (a teachers) classroom, they are protective of you. NOT BELIEVABLE.
A teacher could be fired for that.
TROY BOWLES - please tell us about meeting them!
I can see it now! Thanks everyone! Probably a PICNIC moment for me!
ReplyDeleteYoyo said: "..I believe there would be added jealousy from the wife that is not related. How unfair is that to her?"
ReplyDeleteI think she signed up for that. From what I understand, it is not unusual for a man to marry sisters in polygamy (correct me if I am wrong) so wives entering this type of relationship do so knowing future wives are a possibility and that there is always a chance the wife will be a sister or relative of one of the current sister wives (this is a relatively small community, when you think about it.)
What is unfair is the way parents condition their kids to fear God (or God's wrath; fear created in religious beliefs or ignorance.
This show I think adresses on the jealousy factor more than the Browns, the wives here are clearly not okay with sharing him to the point of trying to mentally block images out, or having emotional outbursts that some kids probably witness. I honestly do not judge these families with multiple wives but I would not feel comfortable with my children going to their home for a sleepover. I just think other children may not react in a positive way to watching a Dad walk in from work and kiss 3 women, unless they are raised that way of course.
ReplyDelete..Just to continue on about kids fearing God.. the point I wanted to make is how can you say you are giving them a choice when you are also telling them they will not see you in heaven (or whatever their plan is) if the children do not enter poly marriages.
ReplyDeleteIt is kind of like me telling my children they can choose not to be vegetarian like me.. but they know I disapprove of meat eating and therefore I would disapprove of them on some level.
Yet there is a difference between these situations because I am not teaching them that God will disapprove of them eating meat and they will be shunned in the afterlife...
That is a pretty heavy trip.
@ Yoyo
ReplyDeleteEeek I just realized that they are cousins and siblings that much be odd... & yes this religion is not as popular so wives are sometimes chosen right from the same family again odd. Asking a man much older and wiser than you to take your 2 daughters hands in marriage *shivers* that day better never come for me or a slap in the face will be winding in my right hand.
@ Catherine
ReplyDeleteI completely understand what you are saying and agree it seems like they are giving them whatever life they choose with a price. Seeing their oldest daughter (looking around 19-22yr) saying if god wants it and wants her husband to take more wives then thats what will happen, again *shiver* Newlyweds should not think "Wonder when god will ask him to choose another wife or when he will get bored of me and go looking for another." Just my opinion.
I think this is a good family with the wrong religion. They were all brought up in it. However, they are really nice people, not a mess like the Browns. They truly have church in their home, and are very religious. Browns, not so much.
ReplyDeleteCatherine not always so great said....
ReplyDeleteWhat is unfair is the way parents condition their kids to fear God (or God's wrath; fear created in religious beliefs or ignorance.
Sadly, I felt I was taught that in the Christian church. I remember thinking I was "sinning" and a sinner, and not good enough to go to church, and only in my 20's figured out that GOD is LOVE.
Rayne. I agree with you totally. Are you against the laws being changed?
ReplyDeleteIf they change the laws, that also let's people like Jeffs and the others that inter breed, what is that one? (They only breed with their own family, incl. daughters, etc a sect of the FLDS)
ReplyDeleteUtah doesn't prosecute. Browns were stupid for leaving, esp. Meri's mom being there!
I haven't paid much attention to the Dargers. Are they, for the more knowledgeable, more tied to their religion than the Browns?
ReplyDeleteKody's "acting" of preaching is sad, and the whole family looked uncomfortable, kids coloring and playing around, whereas with the Dargers, it seemed like it was a usual thing, everyone attentive.
I thought it as sad in 3 minutes of filming, Robyn's kids had to color!!! They are too old for that in my book, sorry. I know many allow their kids to do that. Mine didn't and I learned the church was a place of respect.
Anon 4:36 - Whether or not the law is changed, I feel that certain religious, polygamous groups will still keep themselves closed to outsiders. Abuse will still go on and still not be dealt with regardless of the legality.
ReplyDeleteAnon 4:38 - I believe you are referring to the Kingstons, they believe they are direct descendants or have the pure bloodline of Jesus Christ. So they only interbreed within the family. But, I also believe other sects tend to interbreed because of limited members of their faith.
I'm making a superficial comment here first off: I think that this father is much more attractive than Kody Brown and seemed more, how can I say this...down to earth and easy going. Nice that he is bald to as no hair got in the way of the interview at all. I do like the show Sister Wives but am not at all religious. I do love to learn about what others believe and this family seemed a bit more open to discussing that. This family, compare to the Browns, is easier on the eyes and there I go again being superficial. Sorry about that. Anyhow, I think this interview was more calm than any I've seen with Kody's crew. It might sound like I don't like Kody or his gang but, I really do like them. I wouldn't mind seeing a show about a day in this family's life to compare with the Browns.
ReplyDeleteMy name is Lisa and not "Unknown." Still not that familiar with blogs and how to change this but at least I can comment.
I meant to say "Nice that he is bald "TOO" don't know why I used the wrong version of the word and I felt the need to correct it but editing was TOO late, lol.
ReplyDeleteLisa
This is probably the most "normal" (maybe modern is a better word?) polygamous family that I've seen yet. I would love to ask a polygamous family their thoughts on the gay marriage debates and, if polygamy is legalized, what exactly the law would look like and whether it would include other family structures as well.
ReplyDeleteThere's something about this family that bugs me. They just seem too perfect. They're definitely hoping to cash in, IMO.
ReplyDeleteI was thinking about sister wives and it seems like 2 would be a bad number, since you're always alone when the husband is with the other wife. With 3, though, I'd imagine that 2 wives could gang up on the other. Four may be better, though, it probably ends up being 2 and 2.
I tried reading their book - it is an absolute snoozefest of smugness.
ReplyDeleteCatherine wrote:
ReplyDelete"As for them choosing to break the law, well in a free country, laws are meant to be challenged. Sometimes laws are outdated or not constitutional - as I believe this one is."
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So when can we meet for a televised debate? I have a lot to say about this.
Troy Bowles
"laws are meant to be challenged." LOGIC FAIL. Laws are definitely not made to be challenged. These people are felons. There are a lot of felons, you know.
ReplyDeleteI hope they cuff this jerk and throw him in jail. These men are such selfish pigs. It's disgusting.
The Dargers are an independent Mormon fundamentalist family, although Valerie was married to a polygamist in that group prior to marrying Joe Darger. So as always, there are close family ties among Mormon fundamentalists. The independent ones claim to follow no authority, which seems pretty puzzling for Mormon fundamentalism, but it's another indication that it's all just a cover-up for things going on underneath, and few of them even realize that they've just been drawn into a scam.
ReplyDeleteWhen laws are in place to protect human rights, challenging them is going to involve prison time. We're not going to budge on that. The right to be free from these risks is what is paramount; not some illusory "parental right," which can never supersede an individual right.
ReplyDeleteDon't forget to check out my blog:
ReplyDeletehttp://cosmophilosophy.blogspot.com/
"I would love to ask a polygamous family their thoughts on the gay marriage debates and..."
ReplyDelete____________________
I wouldn't expect an honest answer from any of them. The truth is too offensive. Mormon fundamentalists are actually some of the most homophobic people there are. But they'll exploit that platform if they think it will enable their own felonies.
I'm a little skeptical, since the Dargers have complained to the national press that they're in danger of being prosecuted.
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, that's a laugh. Here in Utah, just prosecuting the ones who marry little girls is practically impossible. Joe Darger is never going to have to face the law. Like the Browns, they're putting themselves out there for everyone to see and they're complaining about some of the attention. Don't take them seriously the way ABC News does. Those journalists are obviously in the dark about all of this.
Oh, and yes, I met the Dargers. I went to their book signing and asked a very uncomfortable question, and they and Brooke Adams gave a less-than-straightforward answer.
ReplyDeleteI knew they would. I wouldn't ask a question of these folks if it didn't have a bomb attached to it.
Troy!
ReplyDeleteIsn't it aggravating to watch a news show like 20/20- and see the hosts have not done their homework, know nothing about polygamy, and ask the SAME ole same ole questions!
Yes, it's very frustrating. They just swallow up everything they're told, and then their audiences believe them, thinking that they journalists actually have some kind of inside knowledge. Nothing could be further from the truth. Getting a journalist to cover them who knows nothing about the matter is a little like just turning the show over to the Dargers, or Brooke Adams, to be more precise. She's the one who has training in writing. I'd like to see what the Dargers could have come up with on their own. I've seen what happens when Mormon fundamentalists try to handle that on their own. It ends up a little like the Jeffs trial.
ReplyDeleteThat was disappointing, and made me wonder how many other shows I have watched thinking they were getting to the bottom of something and were not.
ReplyDeleteI feel if you are going to jump out there like the Dargers or Browns, you should be prepared to back up your church and beliefs. But both of them seem to RUN from questions. IF you want to be famous and have the big bucks.... it comes with the territory. Am I wrong here?
What question did you ask that was soo uncomfortable?!
ReplyDeleteHey Troy! enjoyed your third and most recent interview again with Doris. I wish more people here would go listen to those so you're not answering the same questions here or having to reiterate the same points here again and again.
ReplyDeleteso far, NO ONE has convinced me that polygamy is a super great and spiritual life to live. nor that it's even from God. I'm not talking just about the FLDS poor example of it either. Browns, Dargers, and the myriad of books and docs i've watched all spell the same disaster for women and children to me.
If it was God mandated, wouldn't he naturally make more girls than boys to begin with?? It's hard to believe he'd set us up to fail if it's a saving ordinance required to get into his highest heaven. It's not possible for everyone to practice it just based on the numbers of females to males so, some of us are just "naturally" screwed by God not making the numbers work to our benefit. lol
and i'm well aware of how JS wrote it up in the Doctrine and Covenants to threaten Emma into accepting it after he'd been hiding it all behind her back for several years. lol How Convenient!
I asked them how to explain why polygamy is fair when it casts off so many unmarried men. Brooke responded that in her experience, only a limited number of FLDS men actually practice it. She was proving my point, not answering my question. They quickly steered to another question.
ReplyDeleteSo---- how are they supporting themselves? Do all of those children have health insurance? How do the finances work?!
ReplyDeleteYou have given me food for thought, Troy. I believe I am leaning towards dispensing with legal marriage. Why force anyone to stay in a relationship that two (or whatever the number involved) are in. And why legalize people to get married in the first place? There are a lot of emotionally abused wives (and husbands) who feel pressured to stay married.
ReplyDeleteIn some countries legal rights are based on co-habitation (common law marriages in Canada, for example).
I may have talked myself out of the argument for polygamy/polyandry so perhaps that just leaves polyamorous relationships with consenting adults.
Troy: "I wouldn't ask a question of these folks if it didn't have a bomb attached to it."
ReplyDeleteHA. Awesome.
Is Brooke Adams perhaps a closeted plyg? She sure seems to favor them greatly (so much for unbiased journalism. sellout.)
Glad to see you on here Troy, thanks!
Maybe Brooke doesn't want to acknowledge any of the bad because they'll probably stop talking to her. But that leads to one-sided reporting.
ReplyDeleteTroy, your question to the Dargers was about whether polygamy was fair to the many unmarried men... But what about separating the religious beliefs from the polygamy question: for example, if polygamy was a choice people had if it felt right and important for the adults involved and not something they promoted to children as being mandated by God. Making it legal won't make everyone choose it.
ReplyDeleteThink about gay and lesbian people - they have the right to openly be who they are. Are they not an example of women limiting the available women out there (or gay men limiting the number of available men)? And what about the people who choose to be single?
When we say that people cannot have committed life partnerships with more than one person at a time it is restrictive and it would be restrictive to mandate that EVERYONE have to marry and and have two children... or better yet, one child, like China. (We have seen the terrible things happening to girls as a result of that law.)
You argue that a society of multiple wives cannot be supported by our population and therefore no one should be allowed this arrangement. Then we can argue that our planet cannot support so many people and no one (or perhaps every second couple?) should have only one child until a balance is reached. I am curious how the bloggers here would feel with that law.
I don't think anyone here is arguing the criminal injustice of brainwashing children to feel that polygamy is their only choice, and for the child bride problems, nor for the emotional abuse of women in marriages they feel forced to remain in... Can we move past these crimes and have a discussion about healthy relationships with consenting adults?
Catherine, are you for or against polygamy, I can never tell.
ReplyDeleteYour not female attorney also, are you? I am getting confused with the personalities, with so many anonymouses, too!LOL
I'm new to the commenting world so this is kind of a test.
ReplyDeleteI really "enjoyed" Sister Wives until the hotel scene of the Browns go to College episode. Wow, disgusting. He can just go to any room as he pleases? What if he doesn't feel like seeing one of the wives at all ~ does he still visit her? Do the women get any say on if they WANT to see Kody?
I'm a 20 year old girl ~ I have no idea what marriage is really like, but I have been in a relationship with my boyfriend for 5 years and can't imagine "sharing" him with another woman.. first off sexually but I think more importantly emotionally! Of course the sister wives get jealous, because it's NOT RIGHT to see your spouse and "soulmate" loving another person. Ugh.
Welcome Alyssa!
ReplyDeleteSounds like you are more emotionally mature than the Browns at your age!
Yes, is is pretty wild, isn't it?
Alyssa, I agree that it is weird to have a husband flitting between wives bedrooms. Personally, under their circumstances, I think he should wait to be invited into their personal, intimate space otherwise it seems like the women are not empowered or equally respected.
ReplyDeleteAnd Tableturner, in answer to your questions I am not Female Attorney; and I am in a monogamous marriage. I have been intrigued by the premise of the Sister Wives show for many reasons. I am in my second marriage (first was young - age 23) and have, over the years learned more about myself and my idea of healthy relationships -- primarily that they are more about trust and commitment... but that it is unrealistic to expect feelings for another to last forever and for two people to necessarily fulfill the many rolls that people look for in their life companion (although these things CAN happen - just that it will often not be the case). The fact that we are usually growing and changing emotionally and spiritually also can cause people to have different needs in their significant others as time goes on.
So here I am watching the show and reading all that I can on this and other blogs/sites to learn about these examples of polygamy to see how it relates to me, and it is clear to me that I want laws to protect people from being forced into unhealthy relationships but I want people to be able to choose the types of relationships that are important to them as long as they are informed adults. (The Brown family is exposing their children to mainstream society so hopefully the children will be able to make informed choices)
To sum up, I am decidedly not an advocate of marriage - but I am an advocate of loving, considerate and committed relationships - and I personally am starting to be open to polyamorous relationship... but perhaps in the future. Still need to process my feelings on that.
The thought of 2 sisters being married & intimate with the same man, having children by him creating the sibling/cousin situation is beyond words of disgust. Some of the worst crimes in this world have been committed in the name of "religion" and even though we can't compare polygamy to terrorism, it certainly speaks to the indignity against women.
ReplyDeleteIt is clear that Joe is practicing for his organization of his own planet ..Cody is practicing for playboy of the year...
ReplyDeleteDoes anyone remember the episode where cody led "church services"? There is no hint that was true or that it is a regular pattern.. I wonder why they just do not join an LDS church there?? Everyone knows that there are poly families in the LDS they just look the other way...