So MANY of you have questions about the AUB, and the religious life. Troy Bowles was blessed us by answering questions on his post-
Philosophy and Polygamy: Ins and Outs, with Troy Bowles
So if you have a question about the Brown's religion, post it, ask him!!! I bet he will be able to tell us more than anyone here about the AUB, Brown's religion, and be happy to do so! Simple post a question.I have posted about the undies. Does the AUB wear them? We'll find out! Ask away!
OK Here are my questions. When a Plyg family like The Browns, children are all adults and move away and ALL of the wives are either past child bearing age, or just have decided not to have more children due to age or health...What then??? Do the wives keep their separate homes? And does the husband continue to visit each wife on a "rotation" basis? Or do they ALL move in together into ONE big home or even downsize but have room for ALL the grandchildren to visit? I mean how does that ALL work out when the wives are older, children are gone, maybe even the husband has passed? Do the wives stick together and live together? And WHO pays for all of the wives' (who aren't legally married, only "spiritually" married) health insurance? Like say if Janelle were to get Type 2 Diabetes or any other wife were to sustain an injury or need long term health care and medicine, HOW is their medical insurance or bills paid? What about the children of the "spiritually" married wives? WHO pays for THEIR medical insurance or care?
ReplyDeleteSorry these are a LOT of questions but I am really curious and I am glad to have the opportunity to ask these questions. I hope someone can provide some answers.
Thank you for taking the time to consider my questions.
Does the AUB and/or the Brown family have an agenda? How does one TV AUB family compare to AUB families that are not being televised? Why do the women wear layered clothing?
ReplyDeleteDo the women really pick the next wife? I have heard some FLDS say the women get divine guidance but in those same stories some how the husband still ended up with a woman he had interest in regardless of any wife having a say. Or another woman will have divine guidance to the same husband and the other wives were left out of the approval process. So how does it really work when it comes to the selection of the next wife?
ReplyDeleteDo the women have a choice on staying or leaving? If they choose to leave a marriage - what are the ramifications, if any?
ReplyDeleteWhat do AUB FLDS really think about the world and people around them - outside of their own? I have read many stories that any one outside of their world is of the devil, evil etc. Do they smile to your face while secretly thinking you are evil?
ReplyDeleteWhere do the families get their money? Most of the families seem well off or beyond their means, granted some seem not so well off, depending on the area they live. Do they pool resources at the highest level - the AUB - and trickle down to AUB families or are the families responsible for their own support? Do any members abuse the system? Are members encouraged to Bleed the beast as they say?
ReplyDeleteGreat questions!
ReplyDeleteI am sure he will answer when he can.
What happens when a couple gets divorced? I am not very familiar with the religion but I know enough that the husband is suppose to pull the wife through a "veil". How does that work if they get divorced? What is their thoughts around divorce? It seems very contradictary to their beliefs. Cody always comments about his wives can always leave if they choose - seems very odd to me that he would really be that open to allowing one of them to leave.
ReplyDeletewhat are the AUB's beliefs towards mainstream Mormonism? I'm told that Joseph Smith wouldn't even recognize mainstream LDS as his church cause they've strayed so far away from his teachings. they've just evolved into a multi-billion dollar corporation whose business is religion. your thoughts?
ReplyDeleteI'm told that FLDS (minus Jeff's pedophilia) and the AUB are much closer to Joseph Smith's original church. and that the RLDS or Community of Christ lost about 70% of their members when they came clean with the unvarnished truth of LDS church history. Something the mainstream LDS won't do cause of what they saw when the RLDS did it. your thoughts?
why would God want polygamy for his children? it's so obvious watching this family and reading numerous accounts of other sad plyg stories, that the wives and the children are so shortchanged in love and attention and nurturing required in human relationships.
ReplyDeletethere's no way Kody can possibly spread himself thin enough to accommodate all his wive's emotional needs let alone 17 children's needs. it's just humanly impossible. and we're seeing more validation of that with this family.
Kody said his mom had a testimony. Do AUB husbands typically honor a woman's testimony? Or is this B.S.?
ReplyDeleteAlso, when and if a couple gets divorced AND unsealed, does that apply to the kids, too? So if Robyn managed to be sealed to Kody, what about the kids? Are they on their father's planet in the celestial kingdom, or their mother's new husband's? Can a woman visit her parents on their planet? Or do they belong to their husband's forever? Where do wives who die before their husbands go until their priesthood holder can say their secret name and pull them through the veil? What if a woman's preisthood holder doesn't rate his own planet? Where does she go then?
I noticed in an early episode from possibly season 1, Christine had a framed "Proclamation of the Family" on her wall. That proclamation was put out quite recently by the mainstream LDS Church, so I'm wondering why she had it displayed. (It is a beautiful proclamation, but being that it was issued by leaders of a church the AUB doesn't follow or recognize, it just made me wonder...)
ReplyDeleteI noticed that sister wives who speak publicly about polygamy often justify their "lifestyle" by saying that it makes them a better person, helps them become a more advanced person by overcoming jealously, etc.
ReplyDeleteDo these women realize/ever think that jealously is NOT a sinful emotion? If you are a Christian, doesn't God say "I your God am a jealous god?" Didn't Jesus overturn merchant tables in a temple because they were using the holy space for immoral practises? Jealousy and anger are not sinful emotions and there is even such thing as righteous jealousy and anger. These emotions are completely natural, human and justified in the right context.
So what is the deal with polygamist women needing to overcome this emotion? Yes, you shouldn't covet material things because that makes you unhappy and ungrateful. But come on, feeling a sense of jealousy if your husband shares you with other wives is natural and righteous anger/jealousy.
I REALLY want this topic to be brought up with some of these women. I've never seen this brought up before.
ModernWife (thought I'd just jump in here with an opinion until Troy shows up)
ReplyDeleteIf the AUB is like other restrictive and cultic religions, women are on a constant mission to subsume their natural emotions (and bodily functions to some degree.)
I don't know why on earth women buy into it, but many do. In Islam, women may not cry within a man's hearing or sing. In strict Catholicism, you must submit to your husband for sex and create as many babies as possible...even at your own peril. Hasidic women shave their heads and must step aside for men when they come in contact.
This denial of jealousy and envy only makes it stronger, in my opinion, and it gets released in other ways. Janelle and Christine over-eat. Meri and Robyn play catty and destructive games. None of them are getting individual love, attention and respect out of their marriage. So they remain emotionally stunted and immature.
No coffee, alcohol, swimming, dancing, outside activities with others, what else can they do besides focus on Kody and produce his child army? Nothing!
All the women are warped by the dogma that Jealousy is women's worst sin and they must defeat it. Who benefits from that idea? Men who want to sleep around, never women.
Someone above mentioned the LDS Proclamation of the Family and the "beauty" of it and wondering why Christine has it on her wall.
ReplyDeletei wonder the same as it certainly is against polygamy. it addresses that marriage is between a man and a woman and talks about a mother and a father. strictly mainstream LDS talk.
as far as the "beauty" of it. yeah, if you think gays cannot have a beautiful, loving and moral family as well. also, it doesn't address the fact of intersex babies that are born and how to decide which sex they are. ;')
i've read it several times and i guess it would be a beautiful proclamation in fairy tale land.
OK, trying to help Troy out - there are a lot of questions.
ReplyDeleteLiving arrangements for older wives. No hard and fast rues but what I saw was women living alone in their own place (sometimes downsized). Husband visiting unless he is like the creep I saw (member of the Priesthood Council)who took up permanent residence with the newest (considerably younger) addition. (she reminded me of Robyn - unending Damsel in distress mode). Health insurance - what health insurance? Most have none. If a guy does have some it covers his legal wife and kids. Tough luck for the rest unless they can get Medicaid, which they often can because there is a lot of poverty. (The Browns are atypical ,unless you met them a few years back). A lot of distrust of doctors and medicine and a lot of quack medicine practiced. Masses of home births. BTW the Brown family do not believe in immunizations for their children. Hope this helps.
Just time for one more answer
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said...
Does the AUB and/or the Brown family have an agenda? How does one TV AUB family compare to AUB families that are not being televised? Why do the women wear layered clothing?
October 30, 2011 12:35 PM
Yes the Browns have a definite agenda to get polygamy decriminalized, especially Christine - lots of evidence online and on this blog. How do they compare? - not very typical, most guys spend even less time with their families than Kody does, and there is less money to go around. Lots of other differences, but the Browns are very good at hiding the truth about their religious beliefs and are trying very hard to look super tolerant when in fact their religion is super bigoted (it would take all day to go into details). Layered clothes - don't know why they go for that particular look, but they wear long sleeved and long legged under garments that have religious significance for them, and so have to wear clothing that covers that. Super hot in summer!
Interesting facts Anony,thanks...
ReplyDeleteI didn't know that dancing wasn't allowed, so I wonder why the Brown's danced on Ellen? ...well if u can really call it that!...lol
Is AUB allowed to use Viagra?
In AUB opinion, do U think that Kody is happy about his newborn son or does he prefer daughters?
Thanks for any info given or insights offered :)
Free and Clear, you piqued my interest when you wrote," their religion is super bigoted (it would take all day to go into details)."
ReplyDeleteAs you have the time, could you provide us with a few details here and there. We certainly won't learn from the show or from official AUB sources because TLC doesn't want to deal with the "religion issue" and the AUB (and the Browns, too) just doesn't want us to know the truth.
Dancing banned in AUB? No that's not true. (maybe you are thinking of the FLDS) Dances are a major aspect of life and are major cattle markets for men to size up what is available (potential "wives). Sorry don't have enough time to go into detail on doctrines, but lots has been rehashed on this blog many times. Race discrimination for one thing, and I am sickened by the way that the Browns make statements that are deliberately misleading about gays and African Americans. Gays are completely condemned in AUB and blacks cannot hold the priesthood, receive the temple "endowment" be married in their temple, be married polygamously, and if one were to marry a white it is considered worthy of "death on the spot." (Not that it is carried out now, but expected to be when the "kingdom of God" reigns on earth) This "super tolerant" persona adopted by the Browns is a total sham.
ReplyDeleteBTW dancing in AUB is totally unlike the way the Browns danced on the Ellen show. You'd be in trouble for dancing that way - music is carefully chosen (absolutely no rock music!) and there are a lot of sedate dances like the waltz, and plyg appropriate dances such as "Red River Valley" where the guy has two partners.
ReplyDeleteDancing is allowed - one of their main outlets for fun at gatherings. Remember the article about the ply and the reporter that became enamored while dancing with him.
ReplyDeleteif the browns weren't on TV would Hunter be a lost boy by now?
ReplyDeleteI'd like to know how AUB members feel towards "gentiles" ? Is this attitude taught from birth?
ReplyDeleteI'll try to answer a couple more questions from the top of the list. Someone asked if women pick the next "wife" in AUB. In reality I think that is rare. Usually the guy gets some kind of "revelation" which can be a problem when several guys get a "revelation" about the same young woman! (Happens more with the pretty ones, not sure why...) The guys approach the father, and he tells the daughter. Then it is up to the girl to decide who she wants to date (if he has got permission from the hierarchy to do that). Parents often have quite a bit of input too, and influence what daughters do, by expressing disapproval or otherwise. Guys with a brain have the good sense to get some kind of approval for the new woman, from the ones he already has, but they don't always agree, and so often he exerts a kind of spiritual blackmail by implying that they are not supporting God's will for the family, etc. etc. and he just goes ahead anyway. According to Mormon scripture, a wife can say no, but she can't stop a guy adding another woman to his string of partners.
ReplyDeleteDo women have a choice to stay or to go? Anyone can walk away if they really want to, but it's very hard for women with little education, a very large family. and no friends on the outside. If you're talking about her leaving the man and remaining a part of AUB, she had better have a really good reason, because it is very much frowned upon. Women are encouraged to "keep their covenants" which often means staying with a man she would be better off without. Having said that, if the leaders think she has a good reason, e.g adultery etc. she can get a release/divorce, but she needs to find another guy to attach to, because she can't be saved in the hereafter without one (and one who has multiple female partners) It isn't usually too hard to find someone who wants to add to his family! Sometimes the member of the Priesthood Council who was advising her before her divorce, ends up taking her on.
ReplyDeleteIn the most successful families like these, some of the wives have their own jobs and their own insurance coverage. and they live an the books as if they are single mothers. Their husbands have been dependent on the housing construction industry, almost dominating in in the local area. In the AUB, this has been a common scenario. But the reality has been a little more grim. There are scores of AUB who have no form of health plan. Many don't even get vaccinate. A lot of them carry crushing health bills.
ReplyDeleteA large number of Mormon fundamentalists live under this sort of gloomy scenario that has them thinking the rest of the world is doomed, no point in working too hard while things crumble. George Maycock was an AUB leader who had a huge family, but he refused to work, forcing his wives to fend for themselves, often from dumpsters.z
ReplyDeleteMaycock was a really strange kind of animal. His children weren't allowed to call him "dad." He expected them to address him as "father." He was just another child molester.
That last anonymous comment was by me. Sorry for the confusion.
ReplyDeleteYes Troy, and George Maycock was on the "Priesthood Council" the highest position a man could get (other than being President of that Council) George would sit around "studying" while all the women worked for the family's survival. He didn't even know the names of his children and would just say "hey you." And that went on for decades until his sex abuse finally had to be acknowledged.
ReplyDeleteOn the subject of dumpster diving, there was a guy that got the approval from Owen Allred to go to the supermarkets and get boxes of out of date food to take round to struggling families. He said he was told to make sure children were not going to bed hungry. He kept a lot of women and children going. Poverty is found everywhere, not just in polygamy, but it doesn't help when what a man earns is so diluted by sheer numbers, and no matter what dire straits a woman is in financially (or physically or emotionally) she is expected to keep on producing more babies.
One more comment on the subject of women leaving polygamy altogether - as well as the problems with wondering how to survive alone with a large family, there is the huge mental barrier to be overcome. The teachings are that if you "turn against the light" your position is much worse than that of someone who has never accepted "the truth." Because you once knew what was true, and turned against it, you are bound for outer darkness with the devil and his angels. It can take quite a while to see this as nonsense.
ReplyDeleteFree and Clear - this may sound strange, but are/ were you HoneyDawn?
ReplyDeleteYes, Anonymous I wrote a crazy blog about a really obnoxious polygamist woman called HoneyDawn. I wrote it as a kind of therapy for myself, allowing me to laugh about some of my experiences, while giving people a taste of what passive- aggrression in polygamy can be like! Harmonee in the blog was a composite of myself and another woman who left, and the blog was based on some of true experiences, (with some alterations to avoid being sued!)
ReplyDeletedances were not even banned in the FLDS until Warren Jeffs banned them.
ReplyDelete@FreeAndClear - yay, good to know you're still around. I loved your HoneyDawn blog. It was me asking about you above.
ReplyDeleteFrom what you've written and other things I've read about the AUB, wouldn't the Browns be considered almost scandalously liberal? All the women cut and colour their hair, even Christine, who seems the most devout. The women all wear pants, the kids socialize with both genders etc etc etc.
Do you know if the Browns have always tended to be more liberal, or do you think it's being done to make them relatable to on television?
I can't imagine it went down well at the AUB school the kids used to attend.
Hi Melissa, I'm glad you enjoyed the blog, it was fun writing it! I really don't think that Kody and crew are half as liberal as the make themselves out to be on the show. Since they have an agenda to promote decriminalization, its suits their ends to appear super tolerant to all "lifestyles" races, etc. when in fact their religion teaches otherwise. As to their appearance, in AUB long hair for guys, and short hair for women is frowned on, so in this sense they are doing their own thing. There has always been tension around things like makeup and hair coloring, with the super orthodox polygamists denouncing women who use either. Some nazi types also decry pants for women, but in general they are accepted, except in meetings. I know someone who went to a girls class meeting in Bluffdale and saw a couple of girls who had turned up late from work wearing jeans, publicly humiliated by the woman running the meeting. AUB isn't like the FLDS which doesn't allow boys to speak to girls, but they do keep a very close eye on them.
ReplyDeleteIs the Brown family really the "cream of the AUB crop"? Are they an average representation of AUB families? I would like to know where they sit on the spectrum.
ReplyDeleteI would say that yes, the Browns are probably the best ambassadors you might find in AUB. They are canny enough not to air the weirder and more bigoted parts of their religion, and know how to lie pretty well about those things too. They also know how to milk sympathy from the public about trumped up crises (such as the "flight" to Las Vegas) They are better educated than most, dress more normally than many, and certainly have more money than the average.
ReplyDelete"When a Plyg family like The Browns, children are all adults and move away and ALL of the wives are either past child bearing age, or just have decided not to have more children due to age or health...What then???"
ReplyDelete_____________________
This varies from one case to another, but if Kody keeps pleasing the right people, he'll keep marrying younger women and the older wives will take a more senior status as "aunts." But every case is different. In the AUB, it seems they try to give each wife her own "place."
According to strict doctrinal interpretation, after a woman is beyond child-bearing age, the husband should not be having sex with her, since that is strictly for procreation. (Whether or not any individual families live up to this, I couldn't tell you.)
"...does the husband continue to visit each wife on a "rotation" basis?"
____________________
The rotation basis is something they don't take lightly. The ones I have known at least hold to an ideal of fairness where this is concerned. Typically, a wife isn't going to give up time with her husband unless it can't be avoided. Again, this varies from one situation to the next.
"Or do they ALL move in together into ONE big home or even downsize but have room for ALL the grandchildren to visit?"
___________________
I've seen many different situations. Ideally-speaking, older wives will be taken care of by their own children, but the husband could take more wives.
"I mean how does that ALL work out when the wives are older, children are gone, maybe even the husband has passed?"
___________________
Widows are usually married off to other men. They wouldn't survive otherwise. That's the ideal, but whether that ideal get's met in individual situations is anyone's guess.
"Do the wives stick together and live together? And WHO pays for all of the wives' (who aren't legally married, only "spiritually" married) health insurance? Like say if Janelle were to get Type 2 Diabetes or any other wife were to sustain an injury or need long term health care and medicine, HOW is their medical insurance or bills paid? What about the children of the "spiritually" married wives? WHO pays for THEIR medical insurance or care?
___________________
They'll do whatever they need to do to get the services paid for by someone else. I've seen many cases where one child has huge medical bills and huge family goes into poverty because of it.
"Thank you for taking the time to consider my questions."
__________________
It's my pleasure, but you've got a lot of questions and I'll do my best to get to them all.
"Does the AUB and/or the Brown family have an agenda? How does one TV AUB family compare to AUB families that are not being televised? Why do the women wear layered clothing?"
ReplyDelete_______________________
I suppose we all have an agenda, and the agenda of the AUB and that of the Browns don't necessarily match up. AUB members typically loathe publicity. What you see on TV isn't even the real Brown family, let alone is it similar to the average AUB family. The Browns want to make polygamy acceptable to the general public, but the leaders of the AUB weren't happy with the Browns' decision to go on TV.
"Do the women really pick the next wife? I have heard some FLDS say the women get divine guidance but in those same stories some how the husband still ended up with a woman he had interest in regardless of any wife having a say. Or another woman will have divine guidance to the same husband and the other wives were left out of the approval process. So how does it really work when it comes to the selection of the next wife?"
ReplyDelete______________________
It seems you've heard accurately. There's just no single way for this to get accomplished. Warren Jeffs and many like him don't worry about anyone else's consent, on the other hand, as in the case of the Dargers, the women play an active role in deciding who joins the family.
It's a spectrum that runs from one extreme to the next, to answer this question honestly. There are extremes and then there are the rest of the people in-between.
In many cases, the existing wives aren't even informed about new wives, although this is officially wrong. Still, it happens a lot anyway, as in the case where a man decides to enter polygamy and the first wife objects and leaves. That's like an epidemic in Mormon fundamentalism.
Troy and Free,
ReplyDeleteHow much are the kids able to get away with in the AUB? It doesn't seem like the Brown kids get much supervision, especially the teens. I'm interested in who oversees their activities, their choices, their outside friends, their school work? How can father's with dozens of children and harried mothers with 6 to 10, take care of these kids as individuals?
Also, with children out-numbering adults in the AUB, I imagine the teens can get away with a lot...if they aren't policing each other constantly. A cigarette in the woods? Making out? Do they ever take advantage of the situation to experiment with life outside their religion?
Thanks,
Kate
What are the "real " Browns like?
ReplyDelete"Do the women have a choice on staying or leaving? If they choose to leave a marriage - what are the ramifications, if any?"
ReplyDelete_____________________
This varies from one group to another. In the FLDS, the women get little choice, if any. Among the AUB, polygamous marriages split up left and right, with women asking to be granted a "release." Since it isn't a legal marriage, they don't use the term "divorce," but it goes on at a very high rate, comparable to the divorce rate in the rest of the state and country.
"What do AUB FLDS really think about the world and people around them - outside of their own? I have read many stories that any one outside of their world is of the devil, evil etc. Do they smile to your face while secretly thinking you are evil?"
_____________________
They don't trust anyone who is outside their faith, but they'll do all the business they can and they typically work very hard, starting early like I did at age 9.
"Where do the families get their money? Most of the families seem well off or beyond their means, granted some seem not so well off, depending on the area they live. Do they pool resources at the highest level - the AUB - and trickle down to AUB families or are the families responsible for their own support? Do any members abuse the system? Are members encouraged to Bleed the beast as they say?"
_____________________
I wouldn't say it's openly encouraged to abuse government resources, but it's built into the system. Polygamists have dominated the construction industry in Utah because they typically avoid reporting their earnings and employ child labor. But they're losing the competitive edge in this industry because immigrants, illegal or otherwise, will do the work for much cheaper. In the AUB, this has had a severe effect on their prosperity. There's little they can do to fight the problem since so many of them conceal as much financial activity as possible.
I never heard the term "Bleeding the beast" when I was in the AUB, but my family had to go on food stamps at times.
"What happens when a couple gets divorced? I am not very familiar with the religion but I know enough that the husband is suppose to pull the wife through a "veil". How does that work if they get divorced?
What is their thoughts around divorce? It seems very contradictary to their beliefs. Cody always comments about his wives can always leave if they choose - seems very odd to me that he would really be that open to allowing one of them to leave."
ReplyDelete_______________________
These are good questions for me, since you're getting at the failing logic here.
Divorce (release) is highly frowned upon and the leaders condemn it from the pulpit, but privately it goes on routinely, just like divorce in monogamous society, if not worse. Most of the time, a woman will find another polygamist to marry, but occasionally some leave the society for good. Depending on her background, she'll probably be pretty overwhelmed if she leaves, and in some cases polygamists have even murdered women who try to break away. It depends on the level of extremism. Under Warren Jeffs, this likely has happened at least once. Holding women under virtual house arrest is not uncommon and most women don't know any other life. They are powerless to resist.
"what are the AUB's beliefs towards mainstream Mormonism? I'm told that Joseph Smith wouldn't even recognize mainstream LDS as his church cause they've strayed so far away from his teachings. they've just evolved into a multi-billion dollar corporation whose business is religion. your thoughts?"
________________________
The AUB officially considers the LDS Church to be in apostasy. Fundamentalists are fond of saying that Joseph Smith would only recognize their version of Mormonism, shunning the LDS Church. Many of them actually yearn for that day and believe the power and wealth of the LDS Church will be returned to them by Joseph Smith, who will come back as a resurrected being they call "The One Mighty and Strong."
"I'm told that FLDS (minus Jeff's pedophilia) and the AUB are much closer to Joseph Smith's original church. and that the RLDS or Community of Christ lost about 70% of their members when they came clean with the unvarnished truth of LDS church history. Something the mainstream LDS won't do cause of what they saw when the RLDS did it. your thoughts?"
_______________________
The whole idea behind Mormon fundamentalism is to do things exactly the way they were done when Joseph Smith and Brigham Young were alive. The LDS Church is trying to calculate their next move through PR methods. They are actively trying to recruit members and grow their wealth. Fundamentalist groups focus more concern on the latter and increase their numbers through their high reproductive rate.
"why would God want polygamy for his children? it's so obvious watching this family and reading numerous accounts of other sad plyg stories, that the wives and the children are so shortchanged in love and attention and nurturing required in human relationships."
____________________
Again, this is where their logic breaks down. If God commanded everyone to practice polygamy, there would inevitably be men who simply have no one to marry. Sex ratios just don't bend, except under some kind of human catastrophe. Unless we interfere, girls and boys will be born at a rate that won't allow polygamy. Some of the men who have been commanded to practice polygamy will be unable to do so at all. Why would a perfect god command such a contradiction to reality? This is how I'd approach it as a philosopher.
"...there's no way Kody can possibly spread himself thin enough to accommodate all his wive's emotional needs let alone 17 children's needs. it's just humanly impossible. and we're seeing more validation of that with this family."
____________________
That's a vital problem. Our cultural ties with monogamy go much deeper than this ancient form. If a perfect god wouldn't command the practice of polygamy, then the other likely motivations will never do anything more than defy justice.
Type (little) a said...
ReplyDelete"Kody said his mom had a testimony. Do AUB husbands typically honor a woman's testimony? Or is this B.S.?"
_____________________
In my personal experience, it would have been impossible. When I was married, my wife was LDS. My mother as well as my mother-in-law both claimed fervent testimonies, but they followed different prophets. I couldn't accept either side.
"Also, when and if a couple gets divorced AND unsealed, does that apply to the kids, too? So if Robyn managed to be sealed to Kody, what about the kids? Are they on their father's planet in the celestial kingdom, or their mother's new husband's?"
_____________________
I get the impression that in the AUB, they just change the ordinances as the need arises. Nobody ever answers how divorce can be permitted under their doctrine, but routinely, polygamous marriages fragment and the women end up married to other polygamists. I asked questions like these as a kid and just got a big "I don't know."
"Can a woman visit her parents on their planet? Or do they belong to their husband's forever?"
____________________
If you ask a fundamentalist this, they'd probably reply that wives can visit their families, as long as those other family members have been worthy enough to visit the Celestial Kingdom. But I've also heard that exalted spirits in the Celestial Kingdom can go down and visit these lower levels of heaven, even hell. Joseph Smith allegedly has to rescue his first wife Emma by going down to hell to get her.
"Where do wives who die before their husbands go until their priesthood holder can say their secret name and pull them through the veil?"
____________________
Usually they just marry into other families "for time," but not "for eternity." They'll be sealed for eternity here to whoever is the most highly endorsed by whoever is in charge.
"What if a woman's preisthood holder doesn't rate his own planet? Where does she go then?"
____________________
If she's been worthy, but not lucky enough to marry a future god, she'll have the opportunity to leave him behind. After all, he won't have any genitals and will be unable to reproduce.
If you meet the real Browns, you can touch them and shake hands, among other things. But there is a lot they don't say and probably won't want to talk about.
ReplyDeleteModernWife wrote:
ReplyDelete"I noticed that sister wives who speak publicly about polygamy often justify their "lifestyle" by saying that it makes them a better person, helps them become a more advanced person by overcoming jealously, etc."
____________________
That's what they tell them as a way of coaxing them into it. By enduring the misery of polygamy without complaining, they've succeeded. Men live by a different set of rules.
"Do these women realize/ever think that jealously is NOT a sinful emotion? If you are a Christian, doesn't God say "I your God am a jealous god?" Didn't Jesus overturn merchant tables in a temple because they were using the holy space for immoral practises? Jealousy and anger are not sinful emotions and there is even such thing as righteous jealousy and anger. These emotions are completely natural, human and justified in the right context."
____________________
I couldn't agree more. Sometimes a justified smoldering anger can motivate a person to get a lot accomplished. I know all about that.
"So what is the deal with polygamist women needing to overcome this emotion? Yes, you shouldn't covet material things because that makes you unhappy and ungrateful. But come on, feeling a sense of jealousy if your husband shares you with other wives is natural and righteous anger/jealousy."
_____________________
Within a religious cult, it can drive a person to apostasy if they listen to their gut reactions when things strike them as wrong. I think they realize this, although they wouldn't dare to articulate it.
"I REALLY want this topic to be brought up with some of these women. I've never seen this brought up before."
_____________________
There are a lot of pressing questions that Mormon fundamentalists avoid. I've been asking these questions since I was a kid. But in philosophy, the concern is to get the questions right first and then try to answer them. When we get the questions right, we typically hand the job over to someone else and start calling it "science." Philosophers tend to get bored at that point and start looking for questions that have been falsely stated or improperly formulated. There are brilliant philosophers who can answer very difficult questions, but the geniuses are the ones who come up with the questions.
In the AUB, "The Dances" were and are a cherished event. I've been to many of them. But I met more girls in school, after I was allowed to stop attending their chaotic mess and go to a real school.
ReplyDelete