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Tuesday, December 11, 2012

Discussion Page for S05Ep04 "Polygamist Cults"










198 comments:

  1. I admit, I actually cried during this episode. Miss Maddie broke my heart a little with her tears. As a mom, I cannot imagine how Janelle felt watching this.

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    1. I also actually felt sad for Robyn. I am usually quite critical of her, but it's sad anytime someone is talking about abuse that they've suffered.

      Yes, I felt for Janelle, too.

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    2. We have NO proof of that either, I can't believe a thing these folks say.

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    3. Personally, i'm tired of Robyn always "alluding" to her abusive marriage but never qualifying the abuse whatsoever. She does lie and is very manipulative, so I want her to either spill it or knock it off completely. Did she even go into it in their book? Also, maybe her ex can say he was also abused by her. It could have been a two-way street. Who Knows? I don't count on ever getting the full truth tho from her anyway.

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    4. I agree. Perhaps saying it is an easier justification for D I V O R C E.


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    5. Agreed- Robyn has been over dramatic one too many times for me to buy her abuse line. She always acts like a victim- her divorce, her debt, even her missing Logan's graduation. She doesnt take responsibility for anything and has a great way of twisting things to get sympathy. Maybe the abuse thing is true, but at the same time I wouldnt doubt if she's purposefully being ambiguous at to what kind of abuse it was just so she can keep having an excuse to flood us with her tears.

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    6. yes and look at how she said she got stuck with the bills from her divorce cause she stepped up to the plate and volunteered to take them on to keep the peace. LOL BUT still just never bothered to pay them!! she knows how to play the victim part to anyone who's willing to buy it without question. I can only imagine what all his side of the story is although i'm sure he's no prize himself.

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    7. I agree with all comments about Robin. I actually believe she may have some type of personality disorder. I can't stand all of her fake tears.

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  2. Did anyone else notice how Logan looked bored (he was yawning) when Maddie was defending their parents? I'd like to know what he was thinking!

    Also, did anyone notice that while this episode was about how "normal" and successfully the Browns practice polygamy, the commercials for next week's episode is all about Christine saying that they are failing as a family?! In this episode, Kolleen says Kody is a good father, but next week, we learn that Kody doesn't see Christine's kids for an entire week.

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    1. Um...yeah. I'm full of questions about that, too. I don't understand what TLC's angle is here. Either the Browns are the epitome of a stable polygamous model or they aren't. I'm sure at this point, TLC is just trying to hold viewer's interest. This episode was emotionally charged, but the emotional element was not on the Brown's part. It focused a lot on Kollene Snow and the other young people who escaped polygamy. Kollene has a lot to say. Maybe Kollene should have her own reality show? Wouldn't that be something.LOL!! I think it just proves that the Browns cannot hold their own in reality tv, polygamy, or any other venue. Let's hope next week's episode has something to offer. Fingers crossed.

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    2. I noticed Logan yawning too. I thought he did it because he was also feeling emotional listening to Madison and didn't want to cry. I do that sometimes.

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    3. I also thought Logan yawned as a defense reaction. Personally I could not put my child in that position (defending her parents lifestyle choice) on television. But all the teens were extremely mature about it. Regardless of my negative feelings toward plyg Christine and jenelle have reared some great teens! Hats off to both of them. I have to wonder how much influence kody has also had on these older kids since they grew up living together and saw their dad often.

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    4. I noticed that too; I even backed it up and watched it again to make sure I wasn't seeing things. I think he's seen so much drama that he's just desensitized to it.

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    5. I just think that Logan didn't want to be there....

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    6. I've had this question all along- how can Kodi be such a great dad when he only sees his kids every 5 or 6 days. There's just no way that one person can be a good father to that many kids. On the episode last season when Janelle was trying to deal with the boys fighting, it was obvious that Kodi never disciplines the kids. How can he when he's never there? The moms are basically like single moms. And with living in separate houses, all those supposed advantages of having sister wives to help just disappears. I'm glad Christine is calling him out. The cracks are really starting to show.

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  3. I'll admit it with you, though I didn't cry but I did tear up. The reality of what those kids lived through is just aweful. I know a lot of people here critize them for letting the kids go on this trip but I think it was a good thing. Since Logan and Maddie do not plan on living polygamy it was not going to sway them away from it. I think even if they were and since Aspyn does plan on living it they need to see the other side. She needs to know the difference between a family like hers and other polygamist families. She needs to know which sects to avoid and be aware of how polygamy can go terribly wrong.

    Also they all need to know that even if they do take that path, if it ever becomes something they do not want to do, that there is help out there and there is a way out. I think all the teens should have gone. I honestly think Mariah didn't go because she was afraid of being talked out of her belief's and afraid to admit that there is such thing as bad polygamist.

    I must say, in the case of the Brown's where everyone is consenting adult, live and let live. Even if the situation is unfair and they are emotionally neglected, they chose to live that way. Kids who forced to marry young are a whole other story. It's not right what these people do to control their women and children.

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    1. Totally agree with you that Mariah probably didn't go because she didn't want to hear anything negative about her beliefs. Good to see that some of the other kids are willing to expose themselves to other people's beliefs.

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    2. I think Mariah did not attend because she is not a good communicator. Her face usually is full of anger. Maddy seems to me the only one who actually really smiles, I noticed her social skills are way above her siblings. Logan talks with food in his mouth a lot.

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    3. Yeah, we've already seen Mariah has a pretty low set button for anger. She would have just shouted out a bunch of weird rant stuff and then ran out of the room crying. I'm sure Kody and Meri protected her from having to be subjected to hearing her polygamy being dissed face to face by these teens and then her having to try to defend it.

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    4. Anonymous, She does have a low set button for anger. Remember when they went to Utah and her 1/2 siblings played a prank on her saying one of her 1/2 siblings had alcohol. She went nuts and was so evil acting. I think we know what her mother Meri acts like with the camera off. After all, Meri is very passive aggressive, so I'm sure outbursts are foul and Mariah was mimicking her.

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    5. I wonder whats up though, if this actually happened before the Darger beach trip because in that Episode Aspyn said she did NOT want to live in a plural family anymore...

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    6. Yes - In the first season Aspyn also said she didn't want to live that life. I just saw that episode yesterday, it' crazy how much they have changed. Mariah was so much thinner! All the kids have changed so much! Hunter looked like a little child in the first season! And the moms to of course - and Christine so much happier, even Kody looked younger and better. You should to a side by side; each brown before TLC(Robyn) and after. I think that maybe this was a happy family before TLC/Robyn came along. Mabe not had been since the beginning, but at that point they were happy. There was this one scene where Kody interrupted Meri and Janelle bascilly told Kody to shut it, because she wanted to hear what Meri had to say. You could see that she Meri were good friends, they touched and smiled more to each other.

      I don't agree with the comment about social skills only been had by Maddie. I think Aspyn is absolutly adorable! And Hunter to. Mykelti we haven't seen much, but I'm sure she to knows how to be around other people.

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    7. I wonder whats up though, if this actually happened before the Darger beach trip because in that Episode Aspyn said she did NOT want to live in a plural family anymore...

      The 5K run was in September 2012, while the vacation with the Dargers was in August 2012. I think it's just a case of a teen not really knowing what they want to do yet in their life.

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  4. I was a little ticked off at Christine's naive reaction "I didn't know that mean could be bastards. I didn't know." Really?? Time to take off the rose-colored glasses Christine.

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    1. I thought it was hilarious! Couldn't help but laugh at her dramatic display of naivete.

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    2. I'm losing sympathy for Christine. I don't think that she intentionlly sets out to lie and be deceptive. It's part of the whole polygamous lifestyle and she's even said herself that they were told not to tell the truth. I'm really wondering if she knows where the truth ends and the lying begins. I mean, c'mon!! This such a messed up lifestyle. I know that she has been told her whole life that us Gentiles are the spawn of the devil. If a person is only ever given one perception of what is suppose to be reality, they not only live it, they eat it up with a great big spoon. But Really!!!!! Is Christine aware of the existence of Youtube? Um...Christine, all those interviews you did prior to SISTER WIVES are on Youtube. And, Christine, you should review those Youtube video clips so you don't get tripped up in your half truths and lies again.

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    3. I found that statement by Christine to be annoying too! Last week with the Darger's on the roof top of the rental house Kody was stating that he didn't want to be represented by Warren Jeff's and people like him. . . Yet Christine didn't know men could be such bastards. Enough with the crocodile tears. Unless Christine has spent the last decade on Mars then she is fully aware of the practices of many of the Fundamentalist Mormon Groups. I have no sympathy for her anymore.

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    4. I think christine's comment reaction was for the cameras. She's certainly aware of the Warren Jeff tragedy. Even she isn't that out of touch and naive.

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    5. i am with you disbelief! i was cracking up - the way she said "bastards" like it was the worst word she could think of. "i didn't knooow!!!!"

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    6. Christine still prides herself on being the "fun and theatrical one" in the wives harem.

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    7. I thought she was just talking about the Kingston Group there. She didn't realize that these abuses were going on in that group and that those men could be such bastards.

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    8. After hearing Christine say that I laughed because she is such a bad actress. Come on, really?

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    9. I agree with Maggie. I thought Christine was talking about the Kingston group specifically when she said that. Maybe that was shocking for her because she had previously believed the Kingstons were like her sect, while the FLDS were not.

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    10. I think that Christine is the most genuine of the wives. She truly believes in the faith that she grew up in. She probably wasn't exposed to many men outside of those of her faith group and probably at church and at functions they behaved appropriately. My family is LDS and my mother is a convert. She is also very naive about the "real world" and how people truly are. My dad really does act like Wally Cleaver most of the time. They see the "good" in most people and it has sometimes thrown them for a loop when people aren't honest or do things that are blatantly wrong. (like repairmen that kind of thing) We live in the mid-west, and have had only limited contact with Utah Mormons. If my own mainstream middle class family operated in this type of bubble, I could see why Christine was so let down to find that other people aside from the FLDS were practicing "Mormonism" with these types of abuses as well.

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  5. Finally got around to watching the whole show.
    I will wait for CJ's review. She will no doubt recap it all expertly.

    But do want to share the shiver of disgust I had when Christine whisper-croaked, "I never knew men could be bastards...(and then turning to look right in the camera) "I never knew"....

    Seriously folks, she is a 40 something year old woman in the year 2012..and she *never knew.*??!!

    And if the excuse for such an appalling and *unbelievable* ignorance is that she grew up sheltered and uneducated in one of the plyg sects, then that fact alone would strongly suggest that she would have, at the very least, "heard" of men who were abusive and mean and "bastardly."
    Or is she really *that* drifty and clueless !!?? Or self-absorbed?

    Hearing her say that made me think this woman should not be out of the house by herself, let alone be in charge of six children.

    And to think....
    She was the family's in-house *teacher* !!! Yikes !!!

    These people just never cease to amaze !!!

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    1. Christine has been one of my favorites but seriously, she did know. Kody talkes alot about FDLS and Warren Jeffs. They all said they wanted to have this show to show another side of polygamy. They have mention child brides several times and how their religion is against that and such.

      I'm sorry Christine I don't buy it. If you knew about Warren Jeffs and the horror that went on there you knew men could be such bastards. If you knew that they were marrying off girls as young as 12 to full grown or old men, you knew men could be bastards. Only a bastard piece of crap would force little girls into sexual relationships with old men.

      Spare me, the I didn't know. Maybe she didn't know so many men are bastards. Maybe she didn't know how deep and out aweful the whole story is but I'm sure she knew at least about the horrible stuff that was plastered all over the news.

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    2. I totally agree with Victoria. Of course she knows! They have talked about it multiple times, separating themselves from other polygamists. And that panel discussion they were on in Boston, where Robyn said that Jeffs deserved to burn in hell (or something similar to that). Or seriously, turn on the evening news and you'll see all kinds of bastards doing terrible things. Give me a break. I don't know what that little performance was supposed to be about but nobody's buying it.

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    3. That was really stupid and awful and fake of Christine.

      A local TV station already asked Nicole what she thought of the Browns in 2010: "Nicole Mafi walked away from her Kingston family and chose to opt out of a life in polygamy as an adult. “I left because I felt like my whole life had been mapped out for me, and I didn’t really get a say in it,” said Mafi. As a woman who grew up in the alternative lifestyle, she has no problem with the new hit reality series known as Sister Wives. "It’s nice to show both sides of it, because it can work, and there are happy people who live it,” said Mafi."
      http://www.abc4.com/content/news/top%20stories/story/Home-for-ex-sister-wives-opens/SiakdDDGnEy1QK8EnI8Spw.cspx
      The other people quoted in the article are against the TV show.

      And I found this on Steven in an article on Meri taking part in the 5K run:
      "Some of the charity’s clients are still "on the inside," said Tewell. "We might get them food or marriage counseling."
      The lion’s share, however, are like Steven Keate, a 20-year-old who was banished a year ago from the FLDS. Keate’s transgression: staying out past curfew, he said. "I went out with some friends one night and didn’t get home until about 2 a.m.," he said. "The next day my dad told me to go and never come back." A quadruplet, Keate hasn’t spoken to his siblings since. "That’s the hardest part. I dream about them," he said. But looking back he said his exodus was "the best thing that could have ever happened." Keate was on his own for three months, couch surfing with friends, until he found Holding Out Help, which arranged for him to stay with a host family. "I didn’t have any clothes or nothing," he said. Today, he works as a machinist making dental equipment and pays rent on an apartment in Sandy. He wants to finish high school and aspires to go onto college. "I wish I had left sooner," he said."
      http://m.sltrib.com/sltrib/mobile2/54947325-218/brown-holding-polygamy-keate.html.csp

      The dental company he works for is of course Dr Dan Fischer's company, which almost exclusively employs Lost Boys from the FLDS to get them on their feet. Fischer left the FLDS in 1995 and set up a nonprofit group for Lost Boys in 2004. His group is called "Smiles for Diversity" and also offers College scholarships for Lost Boys.
      Here an article about him:
      http://articles.latimes.com/2008/jun/30/nation/na-fischer30

      Steven posted these two public pictures of the whole group and of him and Logan:
      http://sphotos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/68619_440911882642323_2136014657_n.jpg

      http://sphotos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/562752_397763783623800_1448437122_n.jpg

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    4. My very first thought at that bit of acting was: Really? ..you are kind of married to a man who is an emotional abuser (ie the nacho comment).

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    5. That was some of the worst acting I've ever seen. She was fake crying during that scene. Her eyes weren't even watery so we were to believe she was wiping a tear after saying that?

      I'm so over these ladies.

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    6. Yes, of course she does know.
      But her performance of being all shocked and unknowing is consistent with her assigned role in their *scripted* drama. None of them can change or improve their characters now. If they did, that would disrupt the storylines needed to keep the ratings fertile.
      And they so, so obviously need those ratings.

      I know I am cynical about this Krew but how could anyone not be??

      They all fluctuate between making outlandishly stupid statements like this one of Christine's (or the many, many equally ridiculous ones that come out of Kody's mouth) with no embarrassment whatsoever at how pathetically dumb or self-absorbed they sound.
      Or they just outright lie and contradict themselves, even with past episodes available to actually see their distortions and contradictions of the truth.

      As a group they have all signed on to be players (caricatures?) in a public forum. I hope in the end it turns out to have been worth it, because we all have heard the adage, "be careful what you wish for..."

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    7. I don't get why the Nacho comment gets brought up again and again. Have I been momentarily repulsed by a partner looking gross for a second? Sure- and then it was over. I really find it distasteful to the survivors of real polygamist abuse to bring that up, especially in the context of men who are child rapists and incest enforcers. I don't find Kody abusive. That still doesn't excuse Christine's awful show.

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    8. Hi Kat: thanks for the links. I was especially saddened by the quadruplet Lost Boy (Keate), who has not seen his bio family. I tire of Mormons, especially the FLDS, claiming that "family" is so much more important in their religion than in other religions, yet then they turn around and throw the boys out on the street, kick fathers out the community, "reassign" wives, marry off young girls because the house is too full, and so on. How important can "family" be when you have such callous disregard for the youngest members of the family?

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    9. Kat, thank you so much for those pictures! Those whole thing was bogus! Christine is such a liar~! Good lord!

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    10. From Kat's article:
      The 10,000-member FLDS "has become the Taliban of America," Fischer said.

      Couldn't be said better.

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    11. Kat, thank you for those,once again, the BROWNS are made out as liars. LIARS. Was Christine afraid the previous times they went?
      What smacks me in the face is why not just tell the truth? The story would be just as interesting. And, I still cry foul on Robyn's abuse. Even if she was, she didn't need to take away from the kids stories - I swear, this crew needs to get it together. TLC I say, on with the Dargers, and some TRUTH about religion!
      The lie so much they can't remember what they know. We had a liar in the family, and we used to say, if she says it 3 times, it becomes true in her world.

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    12. Run, Plyglets, Run!December 11, 2012 at 1:49 PM

      I was kinda proud of Robyn and her smackdown on the kouch. All the others were getting all fundy party line on giving the 'alleged abusers' the benefit of the doubt, in spite of what these kids had been telling them. Robyn was angry. She was basically saying NO! You do not have to give them the benefit of the doubt. She knows from her own experience that abuse happens and the benefit of the doubt allows it to continue. She's was taking the kids at their word.

      I remember when they did the appearance in Boston, Robyn also got angry and emotional about Warren Jeffs and the groups that give plygs a bad name.

      Christine was just pathetic. Everything that's gone on in her own extended family, the whole Jeffs trial, including the DNA evidence proving he'd fathered a child with a 15 year old 'wife'? She'd have to be working pretty hard at not knowing.

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    13. I agree, Run, Plyglets, Run! I certainly understood Robyn's point as to the tendency to give abusers the benefit of the doubt. I don't think she was talking about what she went through personally per se, but that polygamous culture sides with, if not cover up for the men. Standing up to Meri earned her points for a change, IMO.

      Yep, when they were on Anderson Cooper there were also kids who had escaped FLDS groups. She made a great show of outrage and sympathy, so puhleeeze. Not only that, did she never hear of Drew Peterson, or Scott Peterson, or O.J. or the countless other bastards anyone with a television or newspaper has ever heard of?

      On another topic, a couple a pages back someone asked why Meri should have to give up what she wanted for the others to have what they needed. Perhaps Janelle, who financed the Lehi house, put the bitch's name on it, then dumped her own inheritance into this "family" could answer. It's supposed to be ONE family, according to what they say at the beginning of every show, not four separate, independent groups. What's more, Meri wouldn't be on the TLC gravy train at all, much less be getting a wet bar and French doors if not for the rest of the group.

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  6. I had posted a question on a previous discussion board inquiring how these people could get loans; but, my husband and I practically had to jump through rings of fire just for a car loan. Thank you to those who explained it to me. Wow!!! I had no idea that being responsible with my credit cards could make me a credit risk!!! I thought that I was being smart and proving that I could make wise financial decisions. But doesn't it just figure?!! We, now, live in a society that rewards irresponsible, impulsive, and corrupt behavior. How could I be so naive? I mostly use my credit cards for online purchases or emergencies. I pay them off asap.

    (To those who asked, my kitty, BeBe, who was hit by a car is alive and well. He had to have a closed hip reduction and he had to have all but 2 inches of his tail amputated. Poor little guy had some serious road rash, too. His hip joint popped out again, but he's handling it well. Due to his advanced age and moderate kidney failure, the vet doesn't recommend his undergoing general anaesthesia to do a open hip reduction. He's 15-years-old. Until he escaped that one day, he had not been outside since he was 8 weeks old.)

    Changing gears...What the heck is going on with Meri's and Robyn's weight? They have both been gaining like crazy. Robyn looks pregnant. Meri just looks like she's getting that middle age spread. Is Robyn pregnant? Hey, I don't put anything past these people anymore. Maybe Robyn is Meri's surrogate. Maybe Meri is gaining weight in order to look pregnant, so she can pass the baby off as her own. It might seem far fetched, but I don't put anything past these people anymore. After wading through all the BS in this past week's installment, I don't believe they are above outright lying on any subject. Has anyone from LV area seen them around in the last few months? I am not berating either one of them, but Meri and Robyn have both gotten really wide since Logan's graduation. It seems as though Robyn has been trying to hide her belly. I noticed this with last week's episode when they went on vacation with the Dargers. At one point, it seemed to me that Robyn was trying to use Sol to hide her belly, but you could clearly see it as she was walking around holding in him the patio area.

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    1. Meri is at the age where some tend to gain weight especially in the mid area. She is nearing menopause.

      Bless your cat's heart. She is lucky to be alive. She really got beat up and must be in pain. I feel so sorry for her and have empathy for her. Poor little thing.

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    2. NS - you don't have to carry a balance on your credit cards to improve your score. Here's a good article...

      http://money.msn.com/credit-rating/raise-your-credit-score-to-740-weston.aspx

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    3. So happy about your cat!

      I still think Robyn may just be having a hard time losing baby weight. Lots harder in your 30's than 20's! And merit is probably peri-menopausal as well as severely depressed. I know how fast I packed on 30 pounds when my dad died. Merit is probably self-medicating with food. Does anyone know their religious beliefs about medications for depression?

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    4. @Only, I don't think it's a matter of losing baby weight. She looked thinner last season after giving birth to Sol than she does now. I think she's just gaining weight like the rest of the family.

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    5. I think she's pregnant.

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    6. Thanks for the article, DJ!!!

      I wonder if Meri and Robyn, knowing that they'd be doing a TV series, went on crash diets before filming began for season 1? Possibly, they have slipped back into their old eating habits?

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  7. hmmm, I await CJ's summary of it all...

    as for Mariah not going, I think she did not want to air her view on the topic at hand.......... ever noticed how little Maria talks??? we have been exposed a lot to Janelle & Christine's kids' views but so little of Mariah.

    who I think knows a lot of what is going on in the Brown clan. even her saying she will live polygamy came out defensive to me. and then she goes and says she want to be a doctor - which is a complete opposite for sister wife.a career that will require years of dedication! strange, when all sister wives' ultimate goal seems to be a child-bearing machine!

    I wish we could get a "strong" one on one interview with Mariah

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    1. sorry, no interest for me. I've had enough exposure to Mariah to get that she's just an odd duck as well as spoiled and bratty acting like her momma. maybe in 10 years, i'd be interested in hearing her in an update interview. otherwise . . . meh.

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    2. Lorraine says:

      can you imagine the scoop that "odd duck" is holding?? she and mommy dearest are close, I bet you the wet bar if such an interview ever take place we will hear much more of what REALLY goes on behind the scene when the cameras stops rolling!


      and deary, there is no spoiled brat in Brown family! reason being it is impossible to get spoiled with 20+ members of a family and a roaming father.............. a kid that gets really close to be described as spoiled is Robyn's solomon

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    3. Got to Get Me a Sausage TopDecember 11, 2012 at 11:47 AM

      I think there was great impact when the Brown girls were dressed in the Plyg dress. That really hit me. How about you all out there.

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    4. It hit me their beliefs are still from the same principle, that maybe they have dressed differently and only emotionally abused and neglected, there are still too many lies to keep track of and now many of the other sects "faults" have turned into greed for the mothers. Really, not that far apart.
      If you think that a man VS The Lord calls you into heaven...

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    5. Anony Lorraine (?) 9:20 - Meri acts spoiled and bratty as First Wife and Mariah acts spoiled and bratty as Meri's only child. The ONLY child out of the 20+ that's always had her own bedroom and stuff left alone and a quiet chaotic free home to go to. Also, the only child that ever gets one on one kid time w/her roaming Daddy when he does come there to roost. Even Baby Solomon doesn't get any of that stuff that Mariah's gotten her whole plyg life unlike all of her "grouped together" siblings.

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    6. One more thing - Mariah also knows she's the only "legal" child of Kody's. That's also pretty damned special in that group of 20+ kids!

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    7. Yes, Sausage Top, Maddie and Aspyn in Plyg dresses was a bit startling, especially in light of Stephen's story. No choices at all for the kids in those groups. The Browns are a train wreck, but at least their kids have options.

      I agree that Mariah is the brat supreme, and seriously lacking poise. When she was inducted into the NHS, one of the kids asked what that meant. Her reply was "I guess it's for smart people," (if not verbatim, damn close) Odd duck, indeed.

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    8. All this about Mariah is just speculating. Maybe she couldn't go because she had something at school. Mariah has acted whiny, but she is still a teen. I think she acts like a typical teen; moody and self centered. She'll probably grow out of it, give her a break - she is a kid!

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  8. Here's a newsclip from last August on the Holding Out Help 5K run fundraiser featuring both Mean Girl Meri and feisty plyg survivor/escapee KOLLENE!! (love her!)

    http://sandy.fox13now.com/news/news/76670-5k-run-raises-funds-people-leaving-polygamous-lifestyle

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  9. So Christine didn't know men like that existed yet her very own sister wife was previously married to an abusive husband?

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    1. I didn't. Know Christine was previously married. Really? This would mean three of four wives were divorced?

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    2. onlyWife - Anonymous means that Christine's sister wife, Robyn, was previously married to an abusive husband, not that in Christine's previous marriage, one of her sister wives was abused. Christine has never been married to anyone other than Kody.

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    3. Only Janelle and Robyn have been previously married and divorced. The above post was saying that Christine didn't know that men could be bastards and yet her own sisterwife (Robyn) had previously been married to an abusive husband.

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    4. I read some where that Janelle was once married to Mari’s brother.

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    5. yes, anony 12:11 - that was even told on the show In either Season 1 or 2 and her ex has even been shown on the show.

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    6. I just want to say that I think it was cut/edited odd too. Christine was naive. A lot of people in and out of polygamy are. Some parents really shelter their kids. I too was not aware that men had the capability of being "bastards" until I was an adult. I thought men were like those I was exposed to and around, and when I got out in the world I realized that I had been around exceptional men.

      Delete
  10. My goodness, I could go on about this episode ad nauseam but I'll limit my comments to my observations about the disturbing, the idiotic and the insensitive.
    I found Kody's comment , that it was so awkward to meet Kolleen because she was old enough to be his wife in the culture she came from, to be amazingly disturbing. Who thinks that? If Kolleen, who grew up in such a twisted lifestyle, saw him only as a father figure and didn't make that connection at all what does it say of Mr. Brown that he did? And isn't it interesting that the comment was directed at Kolleen only- not all of the girls, certainly not the less attractive ones. I used to think that maybe Kody was repressing some gay tendencies but after that comment I'm suspecting that his ick factor comes simply from repressing some serious kinks.

    For the idiotic, my husband and I both just looked at each other when Christine was giving her dramatically breathy monologue- "I didn't know that men could be... bastards." Now, I'm usually team Christine but really? Hitler, Stalin, Caligula, Ted Bundy, Charles Manson, Vlad the Impaler, Attila the Hun, Sadaam Hussein, shoot let's go fictional- Ebenezer Scrooge? None of them ring a bell? Nope? Must be nice to live in a world where bad things don't happen and men are sainted figures incapable of wrong doing.

    And the insensitive. I found it weirdly insensitive to take young kids who've grown up in a horrifically abusive environment and take them into your family to try and convince them that they just grew up in the "wrong" polygamy. When does anyone ever take abused or molested children from the mainstream and say to them, "This is a happy family Timmy. If your parents weren't abusive molesters then you wouldn't have been abused and molested. You just were born to the wrong family silly." I sort of shuddered when the Brown kids were parroting, "I think we made some real progress with them." Progress? To bring them kicking and screaming back into the fold? Because your way of life is the only way? And I've never seen this family on this kind of overdrive to act like a happy family for these kids. Christine was laughing loudly and often, haven't seen that in ages, nor have I ever seen them look like such a cohesive unit.

    Lost a lot of respect for these folks this episode.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. As an molestation "survivor" (hate the term) I was basically told by counselors I was just born to the wrong family (or mother who chose the wrong 2nd husband). It was a way for them to show that not all families are like that, not all men are abusers etc. I honestly saw nothing wrong with it in my situation or in the show this week.

      I also didn't see the progress remark the same. I saw it as progress that they could show there are some happy non abusive (of course that's an opinion on everyone's part) plygs out there. I don't see it as them trying to bring anyone back to their way of life.

      Delete
    2. Anon 8:18,
      Your observations and impressions are spot on....
      I 100% agree with them all.

      The tenor and focus of this episode was strange considering the previous one was all about comparing them to the Dargers, where all that is supposedly good and wholesome about Plygdom was highlighted.

      And how sad and cowardly it was to use the kids, sending them out to be filmed broaching the reality of the known abuses in polygamy sects, giving the Brown adults the opportunity to appear so concerned....after the fact. (all for the camera)

      If Meri (or this show) was even remotely credible, it should have been Meri who brought this rescue group's story to the KodyWorld *since she had walked in their fundraiser*....instead of pretending they had reservations* about sending the kids. So why send the kids if Meri had already met them all at the race?

      It was sickening to see Kody on the kouch, with his rodent eyes darting wildly, saying, "I feel I have to shoulder ...." What a predictable performance from him !!
      He misses no opportunity to be center stage, no matter how lame and hollow it all comes off.

      I hope TLC paid the rescue group members who appeared on this episode well. They are legtimate folks serving a much needed cause.

      Delete
    3. The big happy family dinner was just for the benefit of those poor disillusioned kids who have no family. No one was taken in by all the forced smiles and the Brown's lovefest. If theft are SO happy why do they weep every week and refuse to live together. IMO they arenonlonger plygs. They are four women who share a daddy of their kids. With exception of merit they are just single moms and daddy visits twice a week or so. Their younger children will grow up very confused and probably with same kinds of problems you see in children without a constant father figure in the home. I'm saying this as a retired teacher who observed major differences in kids from unstable homes who needed their dads. Not trying to offend any single moms on this site.

      Delete
    4. EXACTLY, Anony 8:18!! i asked the question on the other closed thread, "am i the only one who didn't recognize this Brown family on this obviously whole put-on happy family put-on facade for these abused kids??" geesh!! This whole episode of sanctioned lying by the Browns and TLC was an utter insult to us viewers' intelligence and absolutely cruel to the abused plyg kids they subjected them all to. Sickening, really!

      Delete
    5. Amused - Koko (Kolleen) posted several times in the other blog post regarding this ep and clearly stated that she recevied NO renumeration - wasn't paid to be on the show, she did it as a volunteer to spread the word. and was told by the producer to tone down her comments otherwise she wouldn't be asked to visit the Browns in Vegas.

      Since the Kody comment about him being qualifed to be Koko's husband was a voiceover (if memory serves) she didn't hear it at the time but wondering what her thoughts were of that comment? I definitely got a SQUICKY feeling...the fact that he voiced the thought.

      Delete
    6. Tone down HER comments? Really. No shock there, but SO PROUD of this 19 yr old to say it! I hope she comes here and talks to us!!!!

      Delete
    7. Thanks, DJ !!

      Well that just sucks that TLC did not compensate them, and in particular, Kolleen. She opened herself up in a way that had to be painful...VERY brave and committed on her part.

      If she would be willing, I would love to see a publisher hire a ghost writer or co-writer for her to be able to tell her story.
      This 19 year old has lived a lifetime already. Certainly hope her future life chapters are good ones.

      Delete
    8. Karma, I very much dislike the term "survivor" as well. These days, it's applied to anyone who experiences a life-changing event when it used to describe someone who lived through a catastrophe or massacre or similar event. Worse, when people use it for people who've had cancer (like me) they assume that it's over. Using the word "survivor" also contributes to the "battle" and "fight" terminology that I dislike so much that people use if cancer spreads (like mine did).

      Back on topic, I'd read Kollene's story if she wrote and published it. I'm interested in reading about her experiences living in and escaping from polygamy. She's such a strong woman and I have high hopes that her life will be good.

      I also was very uncomfortable hearing Kody's comment or voiceover that she was old enough to be his wife or he could be her husband (I remember the gist but not the exact words). I expect that he or TLC or whoever was trying to show that the Brown "brand" of polygamy didn't do things that way. However, since Kody appears to be in polygamy for the sex and not the religion, that comment came across as lustful and that bothered me.

      Delete
    9. I agree- I would love to read about her story if she wrote a book. So much has been written about Warren Jeffs and the FLDS, but very little has been written about the Kingston Clan. I found the article in the link below in RollingStone magazine. It seems as if the Kingston Clan is just as bad, if not worse because of the incest, than the FLDS.

      http://m.rollingstone.com/?redirurl=/culture/news/inside-the-order-one-mormon-cults-secret-empire-20110615

      Delete
    10. actually alot has been written and is known about the Kingston clan. Doris Hanson who lives in Salt Lake City and does a weekly TV show is from the Kingston clan and has archived TV interviews w/alot of other escapees from them. She's talked alot about the Sister Wives. She and Troy Bowles (who has posted here before along w/Doris Hanson) are huge advocates and lobbyists against the legalization and trying to get the Utah goverment to do something about all the polygamy abuse in Utah.

      Doris's show is called Polygamy, What Love is This? and you can go to her website and watch any past TV show. They're 30 minutes long and the callers that call in are very interesting and she gets some hateful mainstream Mormons calling in and ripping her a new one for the church facts she gives that they don't have a clue about. HAH!

      You can watch her show also livestream each week. I've learned A TON from her and her guests about their polygamous lives.

      Delete
    11. DakotaJustice--where is the other blog post that you are referring to? I'd love to read it.

      "Koko (Kolleen) posted several times in the other blog post regarding this ep and clearly stated that she recevied NO renumeration - wasn't paid to be on the show, she did it as a volunteer to spread the word. and was told by the producer to tone down her comments otherwise she wouldn't be asked to visit the Browns in Vegas."

      Delete
    12. On the initial blog post for the ep, the one with the sneak peek videos.
      KoKo FoshoDecember 10, 2012 2:02 AM
      Actually the producer came to me and told me to stop being so rude about what i had to say because he was afraid that they would not take me to vegas. the producer loved me and the kids were kinda scared i would rip into kody... i was going to but since everyone kept telling me to be nice, every thought in my mind was negative and thats why i didnt talk the whole time we were touring the houses... so many times i wanted to bitch out at kody but they all told me to calm down so i just glared alot... And as for getting paid. $0 I did this as a voice! i just wanted to get out there and exploit the pain and abuse thats going on and to let everyone know about it and that there is help if they need it... and the show sought me out.. This whole thing was 100% volunteer work.

      Delete
  11. One more reason I dislike Mary..even though I know it's edited television, she only seems to cry when she thinks she is suffering or being mistreated..maybe next week we will see her cry when she demands the french doors instead of sliding doors..:/

    ReplyDelete
  12. Kolleen needs to save Janelle and Christine from Kody - think she could have her own show? LOL!

    ReplyDelete
  13. A real estate website shows that Meri's house has been "officially" sold. The others are pending offers.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Sold, as in to someone else? Or sold to Meri and Kody?

      Delete
    2. Hmm is this updated from the blog post of a couple days ago?

      It seems to me that if the homes all were the Browns, they would have closed on or about the same time/day, but what do I know...?

      Delete
    3. The website with the listing says 'Sold for $434,705
      on Nov 29, 2012.' The buyers representative is shown as Mona.

      Delete
    4. Also, I wanted to add, that website says "Status:Closed".

      Delete
    5. Meri's house is still pending offer, same as the other three homes. All four are anticipated to close on December 31st. I figure the closing date was deliberately arranged to coincide with the end of this season of Sister Wives.

      Delete
    6. The house you're looking at that closed on November 29th is lot 4. Same street, different house. The Browns have lots 6-9.

      Delete
  14. The last two episodes have contradicting stuff the Browns say.One thing is about the sharing of the kitchen I thought it was funny that they think it's abuse but they will share Kody stds and all,and Christine has never watched the news ever come on men can be Bastards it's been shown time and again,anyone else see that Kody was less Crazy in the episode since they were trying to show how they are different from other polygamist.Finally nothing about Meri and a baby or nonsence about houses

    ReplyDelete
  15. Is it just me or did it look like Logan did not want to go on this trip?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. IMO - I think Logan is just DONE with the whole show circus. and last season, heck even the recent show focused on his grad, he wasn't saying yes or no to the question of going into polygamy for himself (he said "walking down the first aisle of my life..." or words to that effect). And this ep - he out and out said NO he is not going to be a polygamist. Logan strikes me as a private person who isn't totally on board with this whole thing. The bloom has definitely worn off the rose - proof is that he COULD stay at home and easily commute to UNLV but CHOSE to spend the extra $$ to live in a dorm.

      Delete
    2. I pray that he stays on that track. I really do. One would have to look at the idea for them men to have multiple partners as a lusty thing - hard not to tempt when "approved" by their views. GO LOGAN AND MADDIE!

      Delete
    3. I think now that Logan's out of the house and has his newfound freedom along w/his college peers - he's probably embarrassed to have to be seen on the show now. I'm sure he'd rather just live in anonymity or fade into obscurity regarding the whole public trainwreck. He probably no longer allows his college friends to even bring it all up to him. ;')

      Delete
    4. It isn't just you! I noticed it, too. I think Logan is separating himself from his family which is perfectly natural for a person his age. Living away from his family will also be giving him a new perspective on them. I expect that he's enjoying his new-found freedom and lack of responsibility. Besides, can you imagine having to admit that you're related to the people on this show?

      Delete
    5. I thought the same thing about Logan when I saw him yawning while on the trip.

      Just realized that Maddie and Logan--my favorite of the teens, and coincidentally, the two who don't want to be polygamists--are both Janelle's kids. Love Janelle. Hope she gets out. (Doubt it, but I can hope.)

      Delete
  16. Anyone else wonder if Christine had contacted Holding Out Help when she was going through that "rough patch" with Kody? The way she talked about it and then acted toward the woman when they visited just made me wonder.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anon 11:42am...I thought this exact same thing!

      Delete
    2. no, cause i think her irrational fear of inadvertently having her kids taken away is true with her. she's just done what most plyg wives learn to do. just stuff it and keep sweet.

      Delete
    3. Christine says at one point in this episode that in her upbringing they were taught/conditioned to not reach out for help to social workers and orgs like Holding Out Help because they brainwash women and their children into thinking that polygamy is the problem to get them to leave their situations. She said something to the effect of "THANK GOD I didn't turn to anybody like that when Kody and I were having problems or they may have convinced me to leave..." Which makes me think she really does want out and is afraid of her own feelings and desires at this point.

      Delete
  17. I feel terrible for what these teens went through, but did Kolleen really annoy anyone else?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. nope. I'm Team Kollene! She's feisty, angry and courageous. All traits that will serve her well in her healing and keep her from going back like a lot of them do.

      She came on and posted on the other thread that she didn't get paid to be on the show and she was told by the producer (who actually loved her) to tone it down around Kody or they might not let her go visit their homes in Vegas. the GRODY will NOT be dissed!! lol

      Delete
    2. I don't know, her whole attitude really bothered me. Its understandable that she would have a chip on her shoulder because of what she went through, but you can't take it out on someone else and tell them they're wrong just because you had a bad experience. Her whole attitude just really annoyed me. She's too angry, and you can't live like that.

      Delete
    3. Meri, Robyn, is that you? NO, she did not annoy me and I'm wondering how she, of all the idiotic people in that circus that is the Brown Clown Show, annoyed you?

      Delete
    4. Good one, anony 8:12! lol Yeah, Kollene is in therapy still and is HEALING!! Plus the whole purpose of her being on the show was to give an opposing voice based on her experience to the "beauteous joy" of it being falsely marketed by the Browns. She gladly did it for FREE just to have a VOICE she said. I'm sure it was very healing for her to feel like she helped get the word out re:some of the ugly and hidden secrets of the polygamy hell beast. I'm certainly not going to judge where she's at in her healing having never walked in her shoes and seen, heard and been done to all the things she's experienced. PLUS she's only 19 and only been out in the real world trying to get caught up now for a couple of years is all. I will give her all the breaks and well-wishes i can possibly give her.

      I don't think she was rude whatsoever to the kids. They all seemed to be fine with her personally but just not her message. Logan said, "he didn't care. People can have whatever opinion they want." He just seems like he would like to just be who he is himself and out of the plyg limelight his parents pushed him into.

      Yes, Kollene pointed the fingers at their parents cause they ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM and she has her reasons for believing that. I'm sure she laughed and eyeball-rolled herself to death afterwards on the superficial happy front they all put on that day to impress "the poor little plygs from the wrong side of the tracks." HAH!

      The other two girls and the guy were just more mild-mannered and maybe beaten down more than Kollene. I actually worry more about their overall recovery than i do Kollene's for sure. But it's obvious they're all still recovering and it's not easy right now for any of them.

      Delete
  18. Here is a 20/20 documentary on one two of the girls' family featured in this episode:

    http://abc.go.com/watch/2020/SH559026/VD55250801/2020-1123-breaking-polygamy-secrets-of-the-sect

    ReplyDelete
  19. Best thing about this episode is that it exposed the dangerous polygamous cults that still exist in the USA in 2012 where women (who have been raised in these cults) and children are treated like property. Many people living in this country don't even know that anything like these cults exist here and now in the USA or what happens to the most vulnerable members. How can we ever legitimately criticize the treatment of women or children anywhere when these cults operate on our own soil? It was a great "public service annoucement" type episode because not everyone lives like the Browns. Probably the most valuable episode of the whole series.

    ReplyDelete
  20. What about the truth?December 11, 2012 at 11:51 AM

    Christine ... Christine .... "didn't know" etc! Your uncle left AUB when he found out that your Grandpa Rulon knew that one of his right hand men, Joe Thompson, had been sexually abusing his (Joe's)daughters, and had still kept Joe Thompson on his priesthood council. Several of your aunts were molested as children by family "friends" in AUB. Your uncle Owen Allred disclosed to a Sunday congregation that George Maycock (another council member) was a an abuser and had been bringing his friends home to molest his daughters, and about ten years ago Shevroll Palacios, another of Owen Allred's council men was sent to prison for having sex with his little daughters - aided and abetted by his wife! Please stop with the lies, and please stop trying to con those kids that your lives are so wonderful in polygamy. Anyone with half a brain can see the emotional abuse and the underlying misery, and no amount of fake smiles and laughter will alter that. Those kids were fortunate to get out, and you want to drag them back in? I'm sick of hearing that these things only happen in the FLDS and in reclusive sects. All of those sick AUB men lived in suburbia. You are just fortunate that none of them became President of AUB. (Sorry to rant on, but seeing a group of women stuffing their emotions and pretending ignorance of what goes on in their own religion so that they can con people, just frustrates me.)

    ReplyDelete
  21. The fact is, if they want to be that fake, what is the truth of why they went public?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. MS,
      Good question and one that is really out there now.

      possible short list of why's...
      Fame? & Fortunes?
      Kody's incessant need for center stage?
      A delusion that they are special?
      The means to living higher than others?
      Natural grifters?


      Delete
    2. Obviously for fame and fortune because yeah - they are that full of themselves.

      Delete
    3. I think some of it is definitely fame and fortune. They needed a family that was willing to do that.

      But they also needed a family that was willing to go to court. The only way to truly decriminalize polygamy is to get it to the Supreme Court. And to do that, there has to be a case, and to get a case, you have to have standing -- which means, there has to be an actual polygamist family willing to put their lives on the line. SOMEONE hired the very famous constitutional attorney Jonathan Turley to represent the Browns on this journey, and SOMEONE is paying for their legal fees, and they will be substantial. (Hundreds per hour.) Supreme Court cases take YEARS -- they have to go through the lower courts, after all.

      This is a long term strategy that Mormon fundamentalists have been trying to push for a long time. The Browns are just pawns in a big game of chess. They'll be amply rewarded (remember, in a game of chess, the pawn can eventually become a queen if they survive -- perhaps with four very nice homes???) but I'm sure there is something else going on here. The Brown family isn't paying Jonathan Turley. There's just no fricking way.

      Delete
    4. I think Christine was a huge pusher, and going with her faith. Kody took it and ran for fame. Why do they not discuss the law situation now they are not "fake running?"
      Excellent thoughts above.

      Delete
    5. The first law about legal cases if you don't talk about legal cases! :)

      We know they are pushing to have the cases go through the courts, but if the public thought they were trying to decriminalize or trying to make polygamy legal, that might not be welcomed, or seen as pretty aggressive. But without the television show, there wouldn't have been a reason that Utah needed to investigate them, which I think Utah was loathe to do, and was more than willing to drop, but the Browns wouldn't let them drop it. A dropped case means they can't get standing to head to the ultimate goal of the Supreme Court.

      Now that the show is so odd, there may actually be a concerted effort within fundamentalist Mormon circles to replace the Browns with another family. It's a closed world -- there's no way that we would know. Which makes for another nice conspiracy theory for how the homes might be paid for -- if Kody and his wives leave the stage gracefully and allow a new family to represent the public face of polygamy, they will be well compensated with the homes?????

      All I'm saying is that the legal bills are being paid by the communities at large -- you can almost be assured of that. Which makes you wonder if anything else is being paid for by them.

      Delete
    6. Wow, the light bulb just went off for me when I read the comment about payment of the legal fees. The Mormon husband of a friend of mine commented recently that the Mormon ad campaign "I am a Mormon" coupled with Romney's presidential run and the Sister Wives show, is part of their push to regain the legal right to practice polygamy. Normalize it and people won't be as apt to oppose it.

      Delete
    7. They sure weren't afraid of showing the law stuff when they wanted to pretend to run!

      Delete
    8. Long time reader first time poster! I love reading everyone's comments on the Browns. I agree that there is something up with the houses. No way they got those on their own, even if they are making a decent amount through TLC. Maybe the AUB does have something to do with it.

      I actually think Jonathan Turley is representing the Browns in the case pro bono, at least according to this article. I also think the reason they have to keep talking about "fleeing Utah" and being afraid to return is because they would not have standing to sue otherwise--they must have a concrete injury. Of course we know that's not true, but it explains part of why they continually lie about it.

      http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/reliable-source/post/sister-wives-cast-and-dc-law-professor-jonathan-turley-head-to-federal-court/2011/07/12/gIQARr0JBI_blog.html

      Delete
    9. Wow GEML, you always give me an aha moment with your posts. VERY interesting, VERY great info., and I think you are VERY correct!

      Delete
    10. For all practical purposes, polygamy has already been decriminalized. Who REALLY goes to jail for polygamy? Polygamists only go for marrying underage girls, abuse and tax or welfare fraud. NOT polygamy. They might as well officially go ahead and take the law off the books since it's never enforced anymore anyway.

      Delete
    11. They can't take it off the books because it is tied to the state constitution and the creation of the state of Utah. Only way it's coming down is by the Supreme Court.

      Delete
  22. Not so much about this episode, but...

    I've just started watching SW from the very beginning (on Netflix). Wow, what a difference! The women were all happy. No tears in sight. No big weight gains. When Christine had Truly, all of the wives were happy and went there to visit right away. Contrast that with Janelle saying she wasn't going to go in the middle of the night to see the King Sol.

    Then entered Sobbin Robin who cries in every single episode. A few thoughts: they never mention WHERE Robin lived, just that it was 5 or so hours to the south. Las Vegas is 5 hours southish from Lehi and there were palm trees outside her house there. On Robin's birthday, Meri gave her a gift and Crody said, "Meri's in love with Robin too." Any one else think maybe Meri could go bi-sexual? She comments about how cute other women are.

    At Crody and Meri's 20th anniversary episode, the question of in-vitro is asked and answered. Meri said "No." Crody doesn't think it was a firm enough no. That was 2 years ago. I think that tells you its pretty firm and TLC is just stringing us along.

    I'm just getting to the episode of the wedding and in the previews, Christine is already starting to have issues with Robin/Jealousy. And Meri talks about jealousy during her anniversary dinner w/ Crody. Yeah, it might have been a happy polyg family but they seriously broke it when Crody took on Sobbin.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Robyn lived in St. George, Utah, when she and Kody first began 'courting'.

      Delete
    2. St. George is also a very short drive to Colorado City/Hilldale (warren jeffs) compound.

      Delete
    3. "Meri gave her a gift and Crody said, "Meri's in love with Robin too." Any one else think maybe Meri could go bi-sexual? She comments about how cute other women are."
      I also have noticed that about Meri and her so wanting Robyn in the family so I have woundered the same thing.

      Delete
    4. I have wondered the same about Meri. On the episode where they were being asked questions about their book (where nachos comment happened), Meri stated that she and Crody were "in love" with another woman that they were recruiting to be a wife. I believe that relationship ended because Crody was jealous, Meri was getting the womans attention. So along comes Janelle, she is not interested in Meri as a sex partner, Crody has Janelle to himself, Meri is now jealous and so now the abuse of Janelle begins.

      Delete
  23. What about the truth?December 11, 2012 at 12:30 PM

    I think it's true that Christine is a crusader who wants the law changed on polygamy. PRC - Principle Rights Coalition(a happy band of polygamist groups that includes AUB and the incestuous Kingstons), wanted a family to promote the "acceptable" face of polygamy, and the Browns agreed to be it. Unfortunately, they have made such a mess of it, Ann Wilde, who is spokesperson for "Safety Net" and part of PRC, was furious about it. Joe Darger is chairman of PRC and I think he and his tribe are trying to edge out the Browns to become the new "face" of polygamy. I think the Dargers are far much more astute and disciplined, and much less likely to let the "happy mask" slip.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "Joe Darger is chairman of PRC and I think he and his tribe are trying to edge out the Browns to become the new "face" of polygamy."

      Very interesting !! Thanks for the info.
      And since Kody and CO *have* made such a colossal mess of it, this explains why the Dargers are knocking on the door to be even more publicly "known" beyond recognition for their book.
      They too have their agenda up and ready to go.

      Delete
    2. I tried to find information about Anne Wilde and PRC but the site where the information's at - the principlevoices.org web page - seems to have been hacked. After all, not many sites would deliberately redirect their pages to isfart.fartit.com, a site blocked by my firewall.

      I didn't know that PRC was using the Browns as the public face of polygamy. In a sense, they have succeeded: in many ways, the family is much like other families (especially those of the single parent variety). The kids are fed and clothed, their moms love them very much, and if they're neglected by their dad, well, their dad is a jerk anyways. Of course the way they live isn't so much about polygamy as it is about a babydaddy and his adventures.

      How do we know that Ann Wilde is furious about the way the Browns are portraying polygamy?

      Delete
    3. Well, if I was a "modern day polygamist" and was watching Sisterwives and seeing how the Browns were portraying the "lifestyle"...I would certainly be doing something to clean up the mess that the Browns have created.

      Delete
    4. I too would like information where Anne Wilde was against the Browns, I have not seen it. Even on the films website it states they talked to her about what couples to talk to. Go to: http://www.puddlemonkey.tv/ and hit prjects at the bottom for information.

      On SWB:
      http://sisterwivesblog.blogspot.com/2011/07/sister-wives-anne-wilde-mary-batchelor.html

      http://sisterwivesblog.blogspot.com/2011/07/what-started-it-all-bbc-meeting-browns.html

      http://sisterwivesblog.blogspot.com/2011/07/aub-at-st-george-town-hall.html

      Delete
    5. What about the truth?December 11, 2012 at 7:59 PM

      You won't find anything public about Ann Wilde's annoyance with the Browns, that information came via someone who knows her well (100% reliable). The Brown's were going to show us how wonderful polygamy is, and instead showed us the truth.

      Delete
    6. Thank you for posting those links Mister Sister. It was very informative.

      Delete
  24. As for Christine's observation, I'm more offended by her use of the word "bastard" (fatherless child) couldn't she have said "bad" or "jerk"? She was being inappropriately dramatic and already got called out by Meri who in the book said she was a natural actress and called her a cheater and liar when they played mini golf (which Kody defended by saying "She lies so good she doesn't realize she's doing it." --a joke I'm sure, but a lot of truth is said in jest) and she's obviously the woman-child of the clan.

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    Replies
    1. good point since by the definition of bastard, isn't Christine's own kids listed as father "unknown" on all their birth certificates? otherwise, how could she have been getting all the welfare she was receiving?

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    2. Well put anon 6:14. I wondered how to politely say just that

      Delete
  25. Monogamous and ChildlessDecember 11, 2012 at 12:58 PM

    So, anyone else creeped out by the "Keep Sweet" headboard?

    Do we know of any pre-TLC interviews with the Browns (preferably a couple of years prior? TLC has old picture, but none from just a few years prior.) Many people have been mentioning Meri's weight gain -- which I do not have a problem with and I do not thing is a sign of low self esteem in any of the wives -- and it got me to thinking: I wonder if Meri lost weight for the show and her body is just going back to where it is comfortable? About 95% of people regain all or more of lost weight, and I am wondering if this is that type of situation.

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    1. well since i've known for years how "keep sweet" is a well-known mantra taught amongst the various plyg sects, I wasn't surprised at all. It's even written in their readers at school. We had one published one shown here. But does that whole misogynistic teaching creep me out? oh YES!!

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  26. I drove by the houses on my way to the grocery store last night. They have power and the lights are on! Maybe they will move in by Christmas? All I know is that they are going to need to invest in some window coverings, you can see right into those houses from the rode below.

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    1. keep us updated if you happen to spot one of the Brown's around! That would be a great "clue" as to who is moving in! Thanks for the info!

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    2. It appears that their backyards are very visible, which doesn't seem like a great choice, is this correct?

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    3. No, they have a large fence surrounding the entire community, it's very common in this area of town. The houses have been built to be very tall with an abundance of large windows. The windows combined with the fact that the lot to the east is vacant makes it very easy to see into the houses and I was just driving by. I could see that they are vacant with no furnishings.

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  27. TLC should thank SWB for I'd say this is the only reason it's still on the air!

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  28. What is the real estate web site?? Thanks

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  29. I found that headboard that said "stay sweet' to be creepy too. I hear Michelle Duggar say that all the time. Seems like they drink the same kool-aid and hide behind "religion" for the abuse and the oppression of woman that goes on.

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  30. I guess when you see your dad once a week, this is how you communicate!

    Kody Brown ‏@realkodybrown

    "@AspynBrown: “@maddybabygirl: I miss @AspynBrown and @MaddieR_Brown ����” I miss you too! We need to ditch together again. ��" No ditching!

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    Replies
    1. Does anyone else find this REALLY inappropriate? Shouldn't that be a private text (or .... call.... :-? or VISIT?) instead of a public conversation?

      Delete
    2. I find most of their tweets inappropriate - and very telling. The adults more so even than the kids.

      Delete
  31. I love this blog. I read it every day to get a good laugh. I've also watched the show since the beginning. I along with everyone else seem to be getting sick of the Brown's shenanigans. This show started off with real potential to educate the public about a controversial lifestyle. It has turned into a soap opera about an unemployed bunch of whiners who don't even like each other and drag their poor children along for the ride. My notes to the cast:
    Kody - Start acting like a man and start leading your family. Quit letting your wives fight it out amongst themselves because you are too lazy to institute some leadership. You don't have to be a controlling jerk to give your large family some structure and guidance. You want to have lots of kids and lots of wives, then good for you, but you need to be emotionally available to all of them. Quit picking favorites. The way you treat Christine and Janelle is disgusting. Also, can’t you see that Meri is nasty to everyone? I know she is wife #1, but that doesn’t mean she has to be a #1 B****. You need to put her in her place and stop treating her like a spoiled 4 year old.
    Meri - Where do I begin? I use to really like you, but the whole house situation makes me sick. I am sorry that you were not able to have as many children as you wanted but you do not need a 5 or 6 bedroom house for yourself plus one. It is wasteful and completely selfish. You are taking space and resources away from your "bonus" children which would greatly improve their lives. No one needs a wet bar or a sliding door. The fact that you chose this lifestyle and then refuse to make personal sacrifices for the other CHILDREN is pathetic. Also, stop being a b**** to Christine and Janelle. You are really mean and they don't deserve it. You are passive aggressive and seriously need therapy. Something is wrong with you.
    Janelle - You are my favorite by far and I like you a lot. You are a hard working lady with a brain. You are a great mother with very respectable children. You choose this lifestyle, but I wish it was treating you better. I feel like everyone takes from you and you get very little in return. You do a lot for that family and no one seems to acknowledge or appreciate it. I wish the best in life for you.
    Christine - I like you too. Sometimes your comments lead me to believe you have led a sheltered life, but that is ok…I think you are growing as a person. I also wish that you and your children were getting more of what you needed out of this lifestyle. You seem sad a lot and I think Kody totally neglects you. My wish for you is that you will somehow find happiness in your life. You deserve better than what you are getting and how you are treated.
    Robyn - You get on my nerves sometimes, but I think you are ok. It is not really your fault that Kody started treated his other wives like crap once you came on board. I don't think you are the money/fame hungry man stealer that some people make you out to be. I think you were looking for some security for your kids. I wouldn't tell anyone to have or not have children, but seriously think about what you are bringing these kids into before you have any more. I mean really think about it. I mean really, really, think about it. Also, it is not always a good idea to have a cute young thing hanging around if you catch my drift. Kody is going to start treating you like #2 and #3 once you pack on a few pounds and get a few more years on you. Don't think it won't happen to you. Logan - You are a stand up young man, who has had to fill in for an absentee father. I see that you make personal sacrifices to do what is best for your brothers and sisters. I think you are smart and will do well in life.
    Madison - You are awesome. You have a good head on your shoulders because of your mother. You will be successful and happy in life because you stand up for yourself and know what you want.
    Mariah – Be nice to your future sister wives.
    To the other Brown kids – hang in there!

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    1. Excellent post, WifeSolo!! I truly think Maddie is person she is and has made the decision not to be sister wife because she has seen her mom being treated so poorly by Meri and Kody....

      Delete
  32. My new name for TLC is Train Literally Crashing! The way Robin has to jump into almost every discussion with her "victim" mentality is beginning to make me a little crazy. Christines "I didn't know" speech was so awkward and contrived that I felt dirty for giving it audience. Once again only Janelle seemed to be real to me.
    Next weeks episode with Kody breaking down while breaking ground already has me wanting to scream obscenities at the TV. So why can't I just turn the channel? I don't know- I guess it's because I am watching a train literally crashing!

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    Replies
    1. Same with me I can't change the channel,It's like a car accident you just can't look away

      Delete
  33. I just saw this post to a post that I made, so I wanted to clarify why I said what I did:

    "Their fans will star seeing them in a different light"

    "MockJob: Why would their fans see them in a different light? If anything, the fans are the ones who can't wait for them to move into these homes."

    My take is that when they started the show, people felt that they could relate to them, and that they seemed to be trying very hard to live a normal life, and not be ridiculed for their choice of living plyg. Now that they are Movin' On Up like the Jeffersons, and making very unwise decisions (in several people's opinions...according to this blog) then viewers are going to get frustrated and stop watching (eventually), hence being their demise. I'm not saying it's going to happen over night, but I for one have stopped watching shows (i.e., one of the Real Housewives series) because of cast members behaviors, lies, antics, and they continue to get rewarded for their behavior. That's just my opinion though.

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  34. This has probably been pointed out before, but if Meri and Jannelle have such a hostile relationship, why do they have their homes right next to each other? You would think they would have chosen NOT to step out their backdoor and have to see each other. Also, wouldn't it have made sense to have Christine and Robyn next to each other to make it easier for their younger children to play together? Oh Wait!!! My bad. That would only make sense if they were in a TRUE ply family where everything is done for the benefit of the family unit. Since Krody only seems to spend time with Meri and Robyn/Robyn's sister, he won't have to worry about crossing the street or "running" the back yards to see Janelle and Christine. But, if he did slither around the back yards, it would keep the neighbors from having to see him go from bed to bed each night. I feel sorry for the kids...I would be so embarrassed!

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  35. I thought last week’s episode was just…wrong. I understand and appreciate that the FLDS does has groups that are abusive and that there are agencies to help those that want to escape. And it’s good to let the public know there is help for those who need it. However, the Browns have said on several occasions that Warren Jeffs is not their prophet – they do not do the child bride and forced marriage thing. And I do believe that the Brown polygamy model does not to be similar to Warren Jeffs. But Christine saying that she didn’t “know” is an outright lie. Christine is an advocate and is all over YouTube talking about how their brand of polygamy is not abusive. That just really turned me off. It has started to make me wonder how much of the show is scripted (and with the Pawn Stars controversy going on, I am more sensitive to the potential for lying).
    Also, I thought it was icky that after they helped the kids in Utah and generally understood that they all come from extreme abuse, trying to ‘sell’ them on how ‘healthy’ their family is and how all polygamy isn’t bad was in very poor taste. And asking ‘now that you see our family and how great we are, would you reconsider polygamy?’ was just horrible. Why would they go help and then try to downplay the abuse these kids suffered by attempting to ‘reconvert’ them to the Brown family style of polygamy? More than one of the kids said it was so noisy and so crowded and it reminded them of their family gatherings. It made them uncomfortable, and in fact, it may have triggered some very strong emotions in these abused kids. That was over the line for me. And I also want to point out that this is the first time in a very long time they have shown the ‘big happy Brown family’….as if it happens all the time. They didn’t manage to do this for Logan’s graduation but pull out all the stops to brainwash these abused kids?? Exploiting abused teens who are trying to move on from the abuses suffered at the hands of their brand of polygamy by trying to force feed them the Brown brand of polygamy was a very poor judgment by TLC/Figure8.

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    1. I completely agree. You said it much better than I could have. I felt very uncomfortable with the last part of the show, and thought it was in poor taste. But that's the Browns for ya.

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    2. Well said, I totally agree. Incredibly insensitive and self centered.

      Delete
  36. As much as she loves/ promotes and advocates for polygamy I don't think she's happy with it. With her personality I'm shocked that she's not married to one man who's obsessed with her and dotes on her like a princess. The lifestyle that she feels she had to choose makes no sense to me considering her personality. Her comments make it very obvious to me that she would love to get out but the very thought of leaving scares her to her very core because of the repercussions in the afterlife.

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  37. Kristine's comments about the founder of Holding Out Help really baffled me. She stated "what if I came to her and said you know what, I'm having a really hard time and I don't know what I want to do.. Maybe I want to get out. What if God-forbid she helped me get out??"

    The psychologist in me really had to dig into these statements. Basically Kristine wants to leave. She hates her life and wants out but is so fearful of being cast into outer darkness. It makes me so sad

    As much as she loves/ promotes and advocates for polygamy I don't think she's happy with it. With her personality I'm shocked that she's not married to one man who's obsessed with her and dotes on her like a princess. The lifestyle that she feels she had to choose makes no sense to me considering her personality. Her comments make it very obvious to me that she would love to get out but the very thought of leaving scares her to her very core because of the repercussions in the afterlife.

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    1. As I already wrote in the other comment: So what?! If Tonia would have "helped you get out" you would have divorced Kody. So what?! If you haven't noticed by now, Christine, many women, including two of your sister wives got a divorce and neither of them turned to ash instantaneously.
      Such an odd statement. The only way that statement remotely makes sense is if she means it in a religious way.

      Delete
    2. Run, Plyglets, Run!December 11, 2012 at 7:32 PM

      She wouldn't even need to get divorced since, legally, she's a mistress/baby mama, not a wife.

      The religion runs deep with Christine, more so than with the others. Sounds like she grew up pretty sheltered and this really is the only lifestyle she understands.

      Delete
    3. Divorce is pretty rampant in the plyg sects and that's just w/the one "legal" wife. the others just leave or are reassigned.

      Out of Kody Brown's direct harem - two of his four wives are officially divorced from their monogamous first marriages. Then there's Janelle's mother who's divorced from her own monogamous marriage. Then there's Robyn's mother who's no longer married to Robyn's dad in a polygamous marriage. Ya know - the marriage that has lasted as a honeymoon forever that Robyn said she wants to copy w/Kody?? lol

      Who knows really now the real updates about Meri's own parents' marriage (a polygamous marriage) or Christine's?

      The Dargers have a wife who came into their plyg marriage w/kids after leaving her own plyg marriage. Who knows about any of their parents' stats with all their own plyg marriages? or their brothers and sisters? I know it's been reported that PJ was raised in polygamy and yet he's the only one out of 19 kids that has chosen it for himself.

      Anyway, just from these 2 families alone - i don't see how plural marriage is soooo much better, stronger and healthier and longer lasting than most monogamous marriages. In fact, we might be surprised how high the numbers really were if there any real way to get them but there's really not.

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  38. Like everything else on this show, I believe the "hostility" between Meri and Janelle is just BS manufactured drama for the sake of keeping ratings up. It's clear from the book and whatnot that there was definitely issues between them in the past, but I think they probably worked through all that years ago and have made their peace with it and each other. It's only being drugged up now for the sake of adding drama to the show...

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  39. I hate that the browns were so dead set on defending polygamy to these poor kids. Why do they always have to make everything about them? Leave these kids alone. They've all been abused and hate poly. They're never going to be ok with it! The browns are so self centered.

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  40. What happened to Kolleen? She was posting comments and all of a sudden stopped. Did someone make her stop posting comments?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Where? I can't find her posts. Was it in this blog?

      Delete
    2. @ Anonymous: Well, she probably just doesn't read her anymore and just checked the site out once.

      @ JenniferH: Here: http://sisterwivesblog.blogspot.co.uk/2012/12/video-sister-wives-episode-4-polygamist.html
      The commenter "Koko Fosho" is Kollene.

      Delete
    3. Thank you so much, Kat! I've been reading several times a week, but apparently completely missed that thread. I, too, think "Koko" was adorable and wish she hadn't dialed it down. I would've loved to see her read Kody the riot act.

      Delete
    4. Actually, i think it's probably best for now that KoKo doesn't keep posting here. Selfishly, i would love her to continue, but there's probably emotionally healthier avenues for her right now. for her own benefit - both privacy as well as healing. Provided it's emotionally safe for her, she might just be lurking tho and if so, I do hope she sees that the majority of us are definitely TEAM KOLLENE and are rooting for her and very proud of her courage and determination thus far to change her life no matter what it takes.

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  41. I think it's clear the browns are not in favor of anyone living in a family making them miserable or abusive.

    I think Christine got edited. Thinking about leaving and deciding to leave are different. I think people are afraid for helps because they don't want to be coerced to change.

    I think the story of the man being banished and his family reassigned shows how these groups are abusive to men as well as woman.

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  42. I was bothered that Maddie kept defending polygamy with sound bites like "it takes a strong woman" and we know she doesn't want to be polygamous -- putting it together I wonder if she thinks she is weak for wanting monogamy?

    I really liked that Kollene had no probably holding her view no matter to whom she was speaking.

    I don't think the Kody Krew have healthy relationships, but this week's episode definitely put it all in perspective on what a big range bad can be.

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    1. I wondered if Maddie's tears were really about her belief in her family. She is the one who is the most realistic about the pitfalls, so I can't help but wonder if perhaps she was so upset because she is having to face some things she'd rather not see.

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  43. Want to go back for a bit to Discussion page 5, and a few things about what Anne said on December 10, 2012 11:01 PM, this is part of her comment:
    I just checked the ratings and for Sunday show at 9pm they had 2.4 million and 1.0 for the 11pm show. So many people ask where are they getting the money from. IMO they are getting it from TLC. Did some googling and my guess they are getting min. 25k per show. I would guess more than that since its doing good in ratings as well as its their 5th season. I would guess they each are making 25k a show, even Logan now as he's an adult. I think thats why he went to collage so close. As far as the kids go I would bet they are getting paid something to sit on the couch. It probably goes in to a trust. Both the Gosselins and Duggars(19 kids) have money in trust for the kids from the show. etc....

    We have discussed a few other times on here how much we think Kody and Kodettes get from TLC for each show, I believe it was around 25k, and I also believe that is for the entire family, I don't think each of them gets that amount....and I politely disagree with you that Sister Wives is doing well in ratings, not if you compare it with Honey BooBoo and it seems like TLC is not promoting it like they are other shows....also, not sure if any of us are able to find out for sure if any of the Gosselin or Duggar monies went into trust funds for their kids, I highly doubt it in the case of the Gosselins....please correct me, anyone, if you think I am incorrect...

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  44. I have been watching this show since the beginning, and yes its a train wreck since robin moved into the family. I can tell that something is amiss with Janelle and Christine.

    I do think that kody having a polgomy relationships is just another way for him to have an open marriage and the wife is all on board with this choice. UGH

    I do think that with the family being on TLC will slowly fall apart since because most relationships on TV break off.

    I would love them to pay back the money since the taxpayers have been supporting them. Also we have filed for bankruptcy and yes its on the record and it took us at least 5 years to become homeowners.

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    Replies
    1. Something is definately amiss with Janelle, she's always been very quiet, but unusually so lately and the thing about wanting only three bedrooms perked my ears up when I heard that.

      Over 30yrs ago I was in the process of leaving my first husband, only thing he didn't know it at the time. I planned everything down to when I would leave, where I would go and what I would take. Even set up my own bank accounts under my sisters name, paid off all my debts, took his name off anything that I brought into the marraige....it took a year to have enough money and courage to leave.

      I think Janelle is doing something similar, she's smart, I think she is setting herself up to leave when the show is no longer running.

      Delete
    2. Big Dog Mom- I sort of agree with you. I don't think she would leave, but I think she might let THEM leave her - if that makes sense?

      This house might be the first real chance for financial security and to have something in her own name, too.

      If they flake out and leave in a year will she go with them. I don't know. At least she might have the option not to!

      Delete
  45. I am involved in other "private" blogs from ex polygamists - and they are outraged at the LIES told on the last show. They can't believe they sat there and said they didn't know about it or afraid of these helpers, and believe me, they know! They are outraging those who would support them if they showed some truth. They are fair.

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  46. I was the only one who thought about the Flock of Seagulls guy while watching Kolene?


    I am? Okay. I'm old.

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    Replies
    1. I saw it, too. Guess we're both old. ;)

      Delete
  47. The Browns have become such pathological liars it's amusing to watch them constantly tripping themselves up. They forget that all their lies and grifter behavior are public knowledge.

    The adults' constant lying, crying & bullying makes me very sad for the kids.

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  48. The shot of Aspyn and Maddie wearing prairie dresses was chilling. I couldn't believe it didn't get more of a reaction from the adults.

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  49. Parts of this episode prompted me to yell at them through my TV (a fairly common response to this show). Meri supposedly worked part-time as a counselor to troubled teens in Utah - a job she loved so dearly. Yet, in this episode, she barely shared a screen, looked at or interacted with the Holding Out Hope youth. She withheld all of her professional experience, any type of training or basic empathy that I'd expect she, as a counselor, would have had for her guests. I imagine that she would have dealt with young people who faced similar crises in Utah, so I expected her to offer some kind of encouragement or direction to help her bonus children's new friends. She did not even flash a moment of maternal instinct.

    Of course, she offered no insights on the talking heads/couch scenes to further help us conveniently forget or ignore her background from earlier seasons. In this episode, she had the opportunity to refute her mean-girl image, but it looks like her strategy instead is to cry victim and blubber any time someone alludes to or calls her out on being selfish, mean, delusional, manipulative or self-absorbed.

    Similar to an observation from an earlier poster, how can the sister wives reconcile Christine's insistence that social workers were taboo and never to be trusted and Meri's career/calling in social services, probably in support of, if not supervised by, those very social workers? It would be a philosophical, if not moral, conflict.

    When the Brown siblings were interviewed in Utah, I was taken aback at how unfeeling and desensitized the two were as the one was wailing to the camera. I didn't catch Logan's yawn, but they did not even look at their sister, much less try to comfort her in any way or even acknowledge her emotions. They appeared aloof, but I saw no discomfort in them.

    Finally, the whole premise that the Browns could teach or help their guests or lead them by example was so offensive at many levels. Kody used the most obvious sleazy sales technique - asking a trapped audience (Kolleen) to state how much his pitch benefited/improved her, how wonderful he is and how thankful she is for being enlightened by him, and goading her to share with everyone her conclusion that he's a good father, while she is trying to leave. Of course, he praised himself after she left for how brilliant he was and for breaking her guard down.

    The Browns were awful, self-righteous, inconsiderate hosts. Their visitors' experience should have been focused on building friendships with people their age, engaging in the wider world and seeing different ways to live - even if it were to sightsee at the family-friendly parts of the Strip. Instead, Kody tried to manipulate them, present himself as a father-figure (and maybe husband), authority and spokesman for polygamy lite or done right at a low-budget, isolated picnic.

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  50. Kody: "These kids are telling me stories about bad experiences they've had, and for some reason I'm feeling like it's my obligation to shoulder this and say, 'not it's really not that way'. And how do I do that?"

    Well, Kody, so much for giving these kids validation in all that they've been through and have given the trust and the courage in sharing with you, eh?

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    Replies
    1. Kody - don't worry. They didn't come to you for help of all people. They know you can't take care of your own families, so they obligate you to absolutely nothing to shoulder for them. You'd be a huge hindrance in their progress actually. Just please - leave them the hay alone and let them get real help from others.

      p.s. - nice try tho but i don't think you'll ever convince KoKo she needs to join your harem for her healing from her own bad plyg experiences. ;'p

      Delete
  51. I can't help to wonder if Kody and Meri going to Utah and getting all emotional is just a stage for when they don't get the houses and the next plot will be to move back or stay?

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  52. I just got to watch this episode, and it made me LIVID. Everyone has covered all these points very well already, but I'm just going to add my 2 cents. I felt like the Browns were totally dismissive of these stories of abuse, and for once I was glad Robyn opened her mouth when she commented on her experience towards the end. I couldn't believe that Maddie, Logan and Aspyn made their comments at the beginning about not knowing if all of it was really true because they'd never heard a story "firsthand". Really?
    I had always disliked Christine, but was starting to come around to her a little bit because I felt bad for her. No more. Those bizarre comments at the beginning specifically calling out Tania and "What if, God forbid, she had helped me leave?", and the IDIOTIC "Oh, I didn't know people used polygamy for control", etc at the end...Christine, I am in my twenties and grew up about as far from polygamy as possible, and I knew about the horrible things going on in these FLDS communities. Don't pretend you didn't have any clue about the things going on with Warren Jeffs and the families in his community. And the giggling/chatting/joking at the dinner table with Nicole and Kollene was incredibly insincere.
    The Browns were so narcissistic on this episode. Instead of focusing on what these kids had survived, they only cared about what these kids thought about them. It made me ill.
    Oh, and Carolyn Jessop wrote a book called "Escape" after leaving the community that the Jeffs were a part of. It's not the best written book in the world but the story is so compelling and she is so courageous. Christine should read it since this is all new information to her...

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  53. The reason they put 'father unknown' on the birth certificates is b/c if they then accept any form of state/federal aid (Medicaid, food stamps, etc) the state will go after the father for child support or the money to repay all that if his name is on the birth certificate. So leaving Kody off 'protected' (gag) him from being sued by the state of Utah for repayment of the medicaid and food stamps, etc.

    And I don't recall *ever* hearing Michelle Duggar say 'keep sweet'. That's an FLDS thing. And when used in a good, biblical, christian context, telling someone to choose to have a good attitude or choose to find contentment in their situation or rest in God's will is not a bad thing. But the FLDS 'keep sweet' is really more of a threat than a 'hey, let's trust that God has this all under control and choose to be happy/content/have a cheerful attitude anyway.' type statement. When you give control over to God, you aren't 'stuffing it' you're giving it up and choosing to believe that a Higher Power has control and you don't have to worry over it. When you just 'keep sweet' (which really sounds to me more like 'shut up about it and get over it' you stuff your emotions.

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  54. 1) Kollene is a very YOUNG woman who endured a brutal upbringing. Give her a break about how she spoke. She needs to come to terms with her previous life and learn how to live without fear.

    2) I believe all the tears lately from Meri & Christine are in direct relation to Robyn. Either they want the same attention Robyn gets after her crying jags (from Kody I would guess) OR they are reading this blog and want to take some of the heat off her.

    3) Has anyone else noticed when the kids say they will not practice polygamy (or in Mariah's case that she will) their ONLY reason is that they don't want to share a husband???? Nothing at all is ever said about the "faith based" part of this twisted lifestyle. Mariah is all about having sisterwives. She is in for a BIG surprise! She has yet to fall in love with a man - then she will know what jealously really is!

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  55. I have to say, this blog really makes me laugh! Love the comments! I agree with the commentors that think the show has gone down hill. I really liked the women at first and I wanted to hope for theirs and their children's sakes that they really were happy. I don't know if the decision to be on a reality show is what did them in, or if there were already a lot of problems prior to doing the show, but it's became somewhat of a slow moving train wreck (somewhat painful to watch). I thought it was fascinating at first to see into a real polygamous family but now I'm starting to worry for some of the people, especially the kids. I do not believe that the children will be all perfectly fine and perfectly adjusted growing up that way, (as the Browns purport). I have somewhat personal experience in this having grown up not polygamous, but in a mainstream very zealous family. We weren't forced to wear long dresses, nor prohibited tv, yet many of the zealous beliefs I had drilled into my head as a child turned into a nightmare when I went out on my own in the real world. I was so terrified of losing my place in heaven when placed on my own in the real world that I was paralyzed with fear when not every "real life" decision and experience fit into my ideas of good and bad. The truth is life is a lot of shades of gray, but that thought was so paralyzing to me at first that for a good part of my young adult life I had scrupulosity(religious OCD). I grew up very much like the Browns in that we lived and went to school with every-day people but were expected to live a "higher law" at all times, mostly due to my Father. Don't get me wrong, I don't by any means think the Browns are bad people as I said earlier, I hope the best for them however I worry that down the road when the kids leave the nest with some kids more cracks will show. I don't worry for Logan or Maddie, but I have real concerns for people like Mariah. This whole "If you don't do this it will effect your eternal life"is a lot of pressure to put on a young person and I'm sure that is the argument they use for the polygamist lifestyle. This truth is we all have a different path to God, and even your parents can't know that for you as an adult child. Oh and btw, I don't agree that Mariah is truly a brat. I think it's hard to judge someone so young who is just trying to make sense of some weird things she's been taught from a young age. You should have seen me at age 19, I'm sure I was every bit as naive and bratty and thought the world was my oyster if I just had faith. You gotta feel bad for the girl in a way, I believe. Even her Mother that is often way out to lunch on her decisions probably is not totally to blame. She was likely taught that. Although, let's hope Mariah grows out of this before then for her sake. Finally, I just have to state my disgust with making Kollene go to see the Browns. Not that I think the Browns are bad people, but she is in a place where she needs to own her pain, not push it away. One thing that I've learned in my life is that no matter how much you've been taught anger is a "bad" emotion, it is one of the necessary stages of healing and without it you can't move on to the next stages of healing (depression, and finally acceptance). We all deserve to have our experience heard and if anger is where she is at, that is where she is at. I hope this doesn't sound too harsh to anyone reading it, I feel like Janelle, and probably Christine have good heads on their shoulders, and may not face such problems. Let's not forget though, that with a lot of religious pressure there can be problems lovable people or not, not to mention the lack of financial and general good sense teaching.

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    1. "This truth is we all have a different path to God, and even your parents can't know that for you as an adult child."-- Alexandra

      The "grey areas of life" in your line of reasoning, refers to a body of argument within the philosophy of situation ethics. (Secular Humanism?)

      The Christian belief is that God gives each of us the freedom to make choices including "lifestyle choice". Still, according to the Bible, Jesus(in His own words) is the "the way, the truth and the life."

      Christians consider Bible is a handbook about this life, and the life to come.

      Pressure? A "higher way" setting me apart? Yes. And the cracks, where my parents experience of God was insufficient for my adult life, were real, painful and fearfully explored. But the relationship forged in my young life with the living Savior was strong and He has held onto me.

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  56. I saw a post here that was about some information in a Las Vegas newspaper. It has since been removed. Is that is because the post was false and just an attempt to rile us up at SWB?

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    1. Cynical Jinx and myself found no verification of their claims. Their should be proof for such a claim, and we asked for and gave ample time for them to post it. Thanks!

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  57. I have watched this show from the beginning and found this site long ago. I never posted, just read other posts. I really didn't know how I felt about the Browns. Part of me said "ick" and part of me said if it works for them (live and let live). The last show totally decided for me.

    "ICK". When Koty first met Kollene (a very attractive young lady)...his comment about her was he was very uncomfortable because "Kollene comes from a place where he would qualify to be her husband." WHAT???!!!!! Not that she comes from a place that she disagrees that someone his age could be her husband!!!! His statement was so full of his own ego and totally oblivious to this young woman's position AGAINST polygamy of ANY kind!!!
    There were two other young women in that group who also came from a place where they marry off young girls to old men...but he only points that out regarding pretty little Kollene. THat speaks for itself. He later says "Kollene sat down across from me" at the picnic. Kollene sat in one place and never moved...it was Koty who sat down in front of her.
    I totally agree with the person who posted Kollene shouldn't have even been made to go to the Brown's. In fact none of them should have. The one girl even said it reminded her of her family and made her miss them. Oh that was real healthy when you are trying to support these young people away from the pain they are living in their own lives. I can't believe this program that helps people escape polygamy even agreed to any interaction with the Brown family. ??????

    As for Meri and her house. I'm so over that. She is being greedy. No she does not need 3 bedrooms or a wet bar. Let's face it, she's the only one LEGALLY married to him and that's really why she's getting the big house.
    She's sounding like a broken record. "I want a wet bar...I said that from the beginning." I don't want a sliding glass door Koty, I said that from the beginning". Why does she keep repeating "I said that from the beginning" regarding the house. Maybe reminding him she's been there "from the beginning" ??? The first wife? Trying to justify why she's getting a 3 bedroom house with only one kid (who's leaving for college soon)?

    It sickened me how they ended the show with Kollene reevaluating her opinion and saying she saw what a good father Koty is....and then next week's preview is Christine saying her kids are commenting they never see him and she feels like a single mother. Looks like he pulled the wool over Kollene's eyes. LOL









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