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Tuesday, December 11, 2012

Discussion Page 2 for S05Ep04 "Polygamist Cults"

One thing is for sure, tears are plentiful in the happy family of the Browns.
23 seconds in... tears from Meri...Is there are Tear Count in this show? A requirement?



Luckily, some good guys....Brave young souls.












Are we to believe the homes are theirs?   







                                                                             
 Oops! Robyn's behind in the tear drama race, are those even tears? 1:10








1:15, Christine's in the race! Why are their lots of eye rubbing but no tears?


















Chrstine:" I've heard enough things about her (Tonya) in particular and I don't know if  I can trust her. What if when I was struggling with Kody, I went to her?...What if God Forbid, she help me get out?"
Good question  and good acting Christine. We on to the fact your family knew of them. And, what if she showed you another way to live? Wouldn't that be your choice to decipher what you wanted to do? Seems like they are still locked in the world of fear of knowing the unknown. Many have studied your religion to understand how it relates to other religions. Why have fear you would be so easily swayed?


Girl, how we would so like to hear your personal story on here! You are one brave, intelligent gal with the world ahead of you!

Does abuse involve stealing? http://sisterwivesblog.blogspot.com/2011/08/sister-wives-of-tlc-affiliated-with.html

Give us your fine thoughts!

154 comments:

  1. I think we have all learned a great deal more about Christine over the last few episodes. She has struggled greatly since the day Robyn stepped into the family, with her own jealiousy's. She does not like to pay bills and prefers for someone else to take care of her in those area's. She allows her daughter to skip school whenever she wants. She too, originally objected to Meri's extravagant house demands, but allows Jenelle to take all the heat for it. She wants to pretend that at 40 years old, she has no idea how terrible men can be. She is scared to death of having her children exposed to anyone who might change their minds about living a polig lifestyle. Which includes seeking outside help with things like depression or abuse even for herself. Because they might encourage or even force her to leave her polig life. Leading one to begin to wonder if she played the part of the "family baby" before Robyn came along. Always cute and upbeat, (shirly temple) oblivious to what's going on in the REAL world. Creating a fantasy world with others taking care of her. Likely assumed she would be the last wife. Now that Robyn is in the family it has changed her roll in the family to the ignored middle child. Reducing her to a depressed, nagging, whinner in Kody's eyes. Which he run's from because Kody is all about being stroked all the time.

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    1. Wow!! I think you hit the nail on the head. Very insightful.
      I also have thought that these last episodes have showed her true colors. If a man can embarrass you over eating nachos and tell you they are not attractive to you, doesn't that make them a bit of a bastard? Did she not know what the FLDS had done, and had she never picked up a newspaper, watch tv, or read the internet? Didn't her own great grandfather (something like that) marry many, many young women? Anyway, I really think you made some great points.

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    2. Yup, I think you're right. I too am a bit disappointed at Christine. What crocodile tears were this? She didn't even sound sincere when she said she didnt know that men can be bastards... please...

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    3. She may know her ABC's but has no worldly experience.

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    4. Please someone relate the nacho comment -- I have watched all of the episodes, I think, and I cannot remember this. Thanks,

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    5. Please someone relate the nacho comment -- I have watched all of the episodes, I think, and I cannot remember this.

      The comment actually is from their book "Becoming Sister Wives" which was brought up by Natalie Morales in her interview with the Browns TV special. (not available apparently)

      You can read about it on SWB.

      This link is where Kody originally talked about the nacho cheese incident in the book:
      http://sisterwivesblog.blogspot.com/2012/05/becoming-sister-wives-prologue-and-part.html

      This is a review of the Natalie Morales interview Sister Wives Tell All:
      http://sisterwivesblog.blogspot.com/2012/06/review-sister-wives-tell-all.html

      Last, here's a youtube excerpt of the Morales interview where she asks Kody about the nachos incident.
      http://youtu.be/1Lk7g6-AQOs

      Delete
    6. Got to Get Me A Sausage TopDecember 12, 2012 at 8:31 PM

      It was quite obvious that Christine was suffering from Post Partum Depression for quite awhile after the birth of Truley. It is not easy to overcome especially without a supportive husband to pitch in and help.

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    7. Right!!! I think Janelle should grab her kids and run like hell. I feel bad for Christine but she has got to stop making excuses for Kody Boy.

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  2. I finally respond - have been just reading for weeks.

    One thing I have picked up here: majority feels sorry for Janelle and Christine. I do not understand why? people here seems to think Janelle or Christine will leave the Brown clan.......... I do not understand why ANYONE will think these 2 will leave! These two women CHOSE polygamy! they are all for it!

    if they were not all for it, they should never have "married" a married man! never have bore him 6 kids each!

    IMHO, if anyone can leave the Brown clan that person will be Meri! as much as in the show she says "we chose this" - to me it is a sacrifice on her part and Religion and Kody pushed her into it. that is why Meri seems to resent these women.............. which wife will be happy to share her husband?

    even more telling is when in earlier shows she ask Kody how he will feel if the table was reversed? how he will feel if he had to share her with other men! to date she is the only wife to ever voice this, the others do not have a base to ask that question as they chose to be the other women("wife").........

    I understand why Meri will be branded mean, selfish, unfeeling ......... IMHO she was supposed to be Kody's only wife, I'm sure she will have been a complete opposite of what we see now. so don't blame it on Meri, blame it on their crazy religion accompanied by a looney husband!

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    1. wow - anony 3:55 a.m. - have to strongly disagree. Apparently your'e not aware that Meri went into her engagement w/her eyes wide open and in full agreement w/Kody that theirs would be a polygamous marriage. Not only that, but she comes from a polygamous family. That all takes away your whole defense of her on her behalf. ;')

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    2. Meri was raised in polygamy, she went into the marriage with the understanding that more wives would come. She's actively helped Kody court. She's not a victim. She simply doesn't cope well with the practical side of the jealousy and competition, yet she seeks to increase the number the wives time and time again.

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    3. Didn't Meri come from a polygmous lifestyle, meaning she had grown up in that type of home? I might be wrong, but I seem to remember that Kody converted to from being Mormon, to being part of a fundamentalist Mormon church that believed in polygamy and after that he met Meri. And I believe Meri was very for polygamy, and new there would be other wives.
      What I do think is that even if you think you are mentally prepared for other wives, you can never ever be prepared to share your husband and that is where her hostility comes from.

      Delete
    4. I for one do not feel sorry for ANY of the adults in this saga. (I'm not counting Logan in this BTW).

      they are all in it by choice. Even Meri - who has stated (including in the book if memory serves) that she was TOTALLY on board with having additional wives as a condition of marrying Kody. She has also stated she had no other boyfriends prior to Kody - IMO the agreement to have sister wives was driven not so much by religious reasons as by not wanting to lose what she probably considered her only shot at marriage. because let's face it people, Meri is not exactly a prize in the looks OR personality department.

      I wouldn't call any of the women in this situation prizes, not even Janelle - in comparision she does *appear* to be more on the ball than the other adults however...the fact remains that she is still embroiled in this whole mess and very much getting the short end of the stick.

      Kody's already made his double-standard views known - several times the Brother Husbands thing has come up and he has stated his disgust for the concept. It's not just Meri who has brought it up, it's been part of the standard Q&A along with the Fifth Wife question ad nauseum.

      so nope, don't feel sorry for any one of them. Just the kids.

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    5. Meri grew up in a plg family and I do believe that she did choose this lifestyle. I may be wrong but I think she had a big part in choosing the other wives.

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    6. guys, being born into something does not mean that is your ultimate goal.........

      @DakotaJustice
      I agree with you, one thing more I have noted is that it took them 4 years to commence with Polygamy.

      that to me is a Big pointer, I think Meri being childless in all those 4 years of marriage to Kody was a huge contributor for her to give in for Kody to add a wife!

      I also think if Meri had been productive, thereis huge possiblitity that they could have stayed in a monogamy marriage!

      I might add thou that out of all the "wives", I do not get Janelle! why would she marry her ex-sister-in-law's hubby??? that is so crazy! what is even crazier is for her to expect the 2 of them to have a happy relationship! Janelle is just too weird for me to understand, to make matters worse is her mom, who is married to her father-in-law, which makes her Kody's step mom!!

      what a strange religion..........

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  3. November 24, 2012
    Secrets of Mormon Cult : Breaking Polygamy

    This recently published YouTube video shows a young man and his family following action taken within recent demands of Warren Jeffs, and the banishment of his father, and then his mother from the FLDS community.

    He seeks help from the group "Holding Out Help"

    The vivid narrative and images of this video enrich the information on Sister Wives Blog, and the experiences narrated by recent escapees on Sister Wives.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBL1AmdkO2k

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    1. This 20/20 special shows in detail how tough it is for some of these folks. One of the daughters of the family featured in this program, Suzanne Steed, was one of the girls shown on Sister Wives this week. She and her sister were shown painting and later, she was one of the ones to visit LV. If you haven't seen it you should.

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    2. Really good thanks for sharing.

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    3. Thanks for the link, SoilentGreen. I did not realize that Jeffs still had such control over these people. It is insanity and evil. I pray the Steed family continues to make progress and finds the happiness they were denied. Poetic justice would be for Jeffs to be somebody's bitch in prison.

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  4. What would any soap opera be without "the tears!"

    The tear factor is definitely in play now for the cameras.
    And there does seem to a tear contest going on between the ladies of KodyWorld.

    You would think that with all the goodies bestowed on this wonderfully loving group of caring/sharing plygs, if there were any tears at all, there would be tears of joy as they move into their new mansions ???

    Oh, and....
    Unfortunately, not everyone looks good while crying...Meri, are you listening?

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    1. Regarding your last paragraph, just recently people on Twitter were fawning all over Meri and saying she looked cute while crying. The differences in perception are amazing. I don't know why so many people "brown" nose them (lol)!

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    2. The first time I saw mari cry was when she lost her job. I really felt bad for her. I am about her age and I probably cry 3 or 4 times a year. These people are crying every week. What is that 52 timed a year? I watch the show now to see who sponsors this c#@*! I have no sympathy left for grown women crying like helpless fools.

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    3. I find this crying thing weird too! I cry when people I love die- but that's just about it. I went through a cancer diagnosis and treatment and never shed a tear. These women cry over "princess problems."

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  5. It must be a special kind of hell for Janelle to live in to be surrounded by 4 adult - Grody included - manipulative whiners/crocodile tear criers all the time. She needs to get them all BIG GIRL PANTIES for Christmas. geesh.

    I thought this was YOUR CHOICE, people!! So, get out of it and stop the misery and insanity if it's a constant trial for ya! Lord, at least read a newspaper or watch a documentary once in a while to learn about REAL NO-CHOICE human tragedies. Here's some you can start w/in your own lifestyle: just google FLDS polygamy, lost boys, Kingstons, Allred's and AUB theft re:Virginia Hill, Joanne Hanks personal plyg story - "It's Not About the Sex - My Ass!", Doris Hanson's plyg weekly TV show in salt lake city, ad nauseam . . .

    GET OVER YOUR CONSTANT "We're so Persecuted and Misunderstood" PITY PARTY. It's just stupid.

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  6. Anony 3:55 a.m asks "which wife will be happy to share her husband?" according to the Darger women - all THREE of them are! lol - yeah, i don't believe it either.

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  7. I was going to comment on the thread about the last show, but the comments section is filled up. About Robyn and her "fake" tears - you have to consider that she has a child with Asperger's. Having a child with special needs can take a toll mentally and emotionally on everyone involved in the family situation. When Robyn says that her ex-husband was abusive, I can totally see him being unsupportive to her because of Dayton. Many marriages are driven apart when a child has an illness or disability. Couple that with their fundamentalist religious views, and the fact that the only son has autism-spectrum problems, I'm sure that their life was no picnic. Just having to live with a child with Asperger's in a small trailer would be enough to put you a weak person over the edge. I used to teacher special education, and unless you have a very structured environment, children with special needs are not going to thrive. The Brown's joke about living in "chaos" is just not funny for Dayton. I really feel bad for him.

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    1. I fault Robyn most of all for not taking care of Dayton and his special needs. Lord, she was totally gungho in disrupting his roots and moving overnight to Vegas. She also had no problem calling him Day-un instead of David (his father's name) as soon as her and Kody married. Apparently, Kody couldn't handle that the kid was named after his dad and even called the name. Kody already said on national TV that at first he had a complete ick factor about Robyn cause she'd already had kids by another man. asshat. I don't see Robyn worried at all about Day-un, so - nope, I'm not worried about how Robyn's coping. She's more than fine. She's more worried about Meri and Kody's relationship over anything else.

      I would LOVE a current update on Day-un personally but then again, it just might depress me.

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    2. I agree with Anon 2:27. I know several people who have children with disabilities including autism, MUCH worse than what Dayton/David Jr exhibits on the show. He's how old now - 13? and they haven't lived in a "small trailer" for at least 3 years now. Maybe we don't see it on the show, but Robyn needs to take responsbility for her son and actively seek out help for him and spend EXTRA time with him, like my friends do. At the very least perhaps she could use their exposure on the show to promote autism awareness - two of my friends with autistic children are very active in fundraisers, etc etc for this cause. and this on top of them both having full-time regular jobs along with being fitness instructors on the side AND campaigning for their sons. Robyn has PLENTY of time to do something but chooses to just whine and cry and think only of herself.

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    3. IwillfindmyownwaytoheavenDecember 12, 2012 at 7:25 PM

      I have to say ... as the parent of an aspergers boy myself, I so wonder about what help Dayton is getting (besides medication - hence the weight problem before he even moved in with the Browns). His mother has an opportunity to highlight aspergers, but she doesn't. That makes me think she does not support Dayton.

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    4. Ugh, I hate to defend Robyn, but she may have some sort of agreement with her ex to limit their kids' time on the show. Dayton may be at a stage where he can't tolerate being filmed.

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    5. Anonymous 2:27 said " She also had no problem calling him Day-un instead of David (his father's name) as soon as her and Kody married."

      Wasn't he ever called Dayton before? I never heard that before and if it's true- I'm horrified. Absolutely horrified. Is there more on this somewhere?

      I have three kids (and a husband) with Asperger's and I can tell you that some days it's no picnic. I honestly did assume that is why she married Kody. She wanted or needed someone to take over some of the discipline.

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    6. I have often wondered about Dayton being in that loud, obnoxious family and being uprooted three times with a new family and a new baby in about a years time. On one hand I feel that those actions are completely irresponsible and harmful to him. On the other hand, if she really did come from an abusive situation (and after this episode I believe her for the first time ever) she may have been desperate and thought this would be a way to help him. As someone else said Robyn seemed to be very calculating about getting in with this bunch and probably thought the money and help from the other wives was just what her kids needed. I think that may be a factor into why she doesn't want to live in a home with the other wives, so that he can have a home that is his. That being said, she should have went to a program that helps abused women and got job training and improved herself to take of the kids on her own and shown them what a strong woman is instead of turning into a weak damsel in distress that relies on others to take care of her.

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    7. Don't worry about Dayton, she's giving him the green goo. She really is.

      I think I read that on their family web page where each wife gives a testimonial about the LIV products. I think she gives him a small spray bottle to use in his mouth at school. It helps Truely with her ailments, too. Maybe it helps Kody's hair grow.

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    8. I am a mother of a special needs child. My son has CMD and is totally dependent on me for everything. I also have a nephew with severe Autism. Having a special needs child is very stressful. I can understand Robyn having her sister live with her because it is probably mainly for Dayton. I can understand her tears because when she is crying its probably not even about the topic at hand.

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    9. Remember the ep a year or so ago where Kody was left with the children? His solution for Dayton - put him by himself in the bedroom and leave him alone. Problem solved at least as far as Kody was concerned.

      I think Robyn too was getting into this believing that she was getting instant babysitters - not just the wives, but the older kids. Especially Logan...

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  8. Browns should also google Marianne Williamson (spiritual activist and founder of the Peace Alliance.) Here's what's on her wall today that is apropos here:

    "I was very depressed about something one day, closed my eyes and asked God for help. I fell into a meditative state, where I saw an angel walking towards me. She carried an envelope, which she opened and then handed me a note.
    It said, "Marianne, get over yourself." Surely God knows us well...:) "

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  9. In response to solient green at 2:15am: I assume fron your comment that you meant that teaching of christ is a good thing I agree, I too believe in christ and think having faith in him has got me through some hard times in my life and those of others around me. What I don't agree with is teaching children, yes children that the only way to live with God is if for example, if they became a sister wife. I think if that lifestyle works for you then great, but please, please, let your children know that if they don't become a sister wife, they aren't going to hell! I also experienced this feeling, not as a polygamist, but as a young child and young adult I had a great fear that for example, by thinking bad thoughts I might go to hell. I know it's not just me that struggled with these thoughts because as a child of the same religion my husband thought that swearing would send him to hell. You can't imagine the guilt that can plague a young mind. This is the opposite of what christ teaches but it took several very painful years into my adult life to realize this. I went through a lot of pain and nearly lost my mind! I am now happy in my family situation, and am a nurse so I'd be wrong to think that some good didn't come from those teachings but I worry, have people like the Browns really discussed with each child that they will still be accepted both in their family, and in heaven if they chose a different path. I'm saying this not only for the good of the kids but for the parents as well because it is inevitable that some will chose a different path.

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    1. i just take people on a "person by person" basis as I've come to know some seriously lame and less than honest evangelical bible-spewing Christians and I know some very honest and kind/loving atheists. So, to each his own. All i care to hang with is good, kind people who look to serve others - regardless of their religion or lack of it. I would never hang with the Browns. (adults - too self-serving, self-righteous, arrogant and entitled for my comfort level) But I would love to hug and cuddle and pay attention to the little needy Brown kids. ;'(

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    2. I'm so sorry for your struggles and happy that it sounds like you've come to know a loving and forgiving Christ. That is a beautiful testimony of how we can overcome legalism and not leave our faith entirely.

      Regarding the Browns, I honestly don't think any of them believe the Celestial kingdom part, except for Christine.

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    3. I assume that they believe in Christ as Savior? Maybe not but if so why does Christ never talk of sister wives. He showed love to everyone especially the ones thought to be the "scum of society. I just don't see how they can believe in this crap.
      I hate it when people spew this shit in the name of God.

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    4. "What I don't agree with is teaching children, yes children that the only way to live with God is if for example, if they became a sister wife. I think if that lifestyle works for you then great, but please, please, let your children know that if they don't become a sister wife, they aren't going to hell! "

      -- Alexandria

      We are agree on much.


      I am not a sister wife. I am one saved *only* by grace. I very much believe that ol' fridge magnet which states; " Please be patient, God is not finished with me yet." Since I'm in this tenuous position regarding salvation, I'm not likely to damn anyone to hell.


      I'm more likely to ask (as Dr. Phil) ... "and, how's that working out for you?"

      Still when it comes to damning, I must ask-- "if there is no strength in damning, is blessing of any effect? "

      By learning the Bible, and by teaching it's truths to our children, we avoid error and recieve blessing.


      Mainly, we introduce our children to Jesus. Christians talk most about relationship.


      ***


      BTW: The instances of polygamy in the Bible are not followed by warnings of hellfire (even in the incestous story of Lot and his daughters); however, complicated events, relationships, and politics
      surrounded or followed instances of polygamy.

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  10. In the beginning of the show, I did feel as though Christine and Janelle were the most likeable. I felt like the two had the sisterwife thing down and were collaborating in every effort from childcare to the pantry. But, as the show continued and saw Logan preparing meals for his siblings while Christine just lived below Janelle and Meri on the other side, I thought where are the benefits of the sister wives? How can they not come over and help get these kids ready for school and fed? Then, as time moved forward, I saw Christine the wannabe actress emerge and her attempts for the dramatic pause just seemed so forced and so artificial. Plus, I don't care who you are; if you live with a man who neglects physically, emotionally, or financially your child, you are equally guilty of neglect so I can not support her as a likeable character. Then when she did that whole over the top attempt at being dramatic with I didn't know...well, I said, that's it. She is an idiot and cannot see past her own little world enough to admit the truth that she knows: some polyg men marry children; some polyg fathers molest and rape their children; some polyg families kick their sons to the curb to cut down on competition for wives; and most polyg families milk the system.

    Janelle is still the one that I am holding out hope for. I do believe she is checked out and I do hope she cuts the ties with the other wives and the baby daddy but I feel as though she has such a low self esteem that she won't leave where she is accepted.

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    1. Robyn found out that there was no sister wife/nor teen help with her kids when she was trying to get herself and all of them ready on her wedding day. lol She actually voiced a complaint about it. BUT the wives made sure Kody took some teen "chaperones" and babysitters with him when he was "courting" Sobbin'. So interesting and so telling.

      Also, i still chuckle at the remembrance of her voiced puzzlement that she wasn't exactly sure where she was supposed to leave her bills to be paid, so she'll just leave it out on her counter for Kody or whoever to take. HAH!

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    2. Janelle's the only one who has a real shot at leaving. She can make her own money and she wasn't raised in polygamy. She also couldn't care less about sex with Kody anymore. She's done in the babymaking dept.

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    3. I take offense to saying that most polygamists abuse welfare. Most actually don't. The ones who do are those who were born and raised into the culture of bleeding the beast. And yes some polygamists are abusive. And some monogamous men and women are too. By sheer number alone there are more single parents and monogamists abusing welfare than there are polygamists, simply because there are more single parents and monogamists than there are polygamists. Abuse and welfare abuse are serious problems and need to be addressed no matter what kind of family it involves. But most polygamists only crime is polygamy.

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    4. If 60% of polygamy families are either on welfare or benefitting from a form of welfare something is wrong. Comparing monogamists to polygamists is like comparing apples to oranges - HELLO - there are more monogamists than polygamists so yes, the numbers would be skewed towards monogamy! But if you evaluate just the polygamist families, you begin to see a pattern of abuse. Polygamists in these groups know this - they call it bleeding the beast. They don't trust our government, they flaunt breaking our laws, and they systematically use welfare to bleed the beast of government that keeps them fed. Does that make sense?

      Polygamy is illegal for a reason.

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    5. Janelle can "make her own money"? Maybe in theory, however it has been almost 2 years since she was gainfully employed and she's not getting any younger - nor do we know if she has kept up with current office technology - yeah I do realize she passed a real estate exam but from what I read, she needs to apply for a real estate salesperson license within a year of passing the exam. I'm guessing she took the exam in February of this year, so she better hop to. As usual, just with the fitness club and the pantry business, Janelle will probably just let it drop due to lack of any real interest and/or initiative to be an independent businessperson.

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    6. Bellarina, I agree with xenia on this. I wish that you would back up some of your claims with real facts. And you can not. You could say, In your opinion, but unless you have studied the situation for years, which I would think has not happened, you would know that the groups bleed the best with no worries. Many receive and deserve welfare. I am not against it.
      But I am concerned that you are not informed. Agree to disagree.
      I do not believe that many monogamists are living where they turn over their welfare to a prophet or husband, and then fend for themselves and children. It is also an issue of it going where it should.
      Since you seem to have information, can you tell us how many women that are polygamists have to turn over their food card to a man, who in turn takes it to the polygamous grocery store and promptly receive money?
      How many do not get to use the benefits for their children? It is a well run, documented business.

      "WELFARE AS CREATIVE BUDGETING"
      http://www.apologeticsindex.org/f/f39ad.html
      Jon Krakauer, author wrote in his book "Under the Banner of Heaven" that fundamentalist leaders in Colorado
      City view the whole process as "creative budgeting." He says that they regard it as a "virtuous act."
      Flora Jessop: ""They are told to go on welfare. It's called 'bleeding the beast' and they find it amusing that
      Satan is supporting God's work."

      Just one example. Many articles on the men only coming around to pick up their welfare.

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    7. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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    8. Most researchers estimate about 100000 polygamists in the US and roughly one quarter are Mormon fundementalists (independent and those belonging to sects). The rest are mainly pagan, Muslim and non religious. So not even half were raised in a community where bleeding the beast is common or encouraged. So no I don't think that the majority or most polygamous families abuse or even use welfare. But of course everyone is entitled to their own opinion on it.

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    9. Dakota Justice - i did say Janelle CAN make her own money - not that she currently is. Since the move to Vegas, they've all just working for the show is all as far as I can tell. Maybe Janelle has said for now "screw it! i'm tired of being the main breadwinner of all the barnacle wives."

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    10. I normally don't do this, but your comment stepped over the line. It doesn't matter how long a person has been commenting, to use that as a way to validate one poster's value to SWB versus another poster is condescending and dismissive, which is against the posting guidelines.

      If you want to dispute a statistic, SHOW PROOF of a statistic that proves your point.

      It looks like the 60% is a lowball figure, what I found was that in 2003 80% of Colorado City polygamists received food stamps. They also received approximately $5 MILLION dollars in free healthcare...while only paying $72000 in taxes.
      (http://childbrides.org/taxes.html)

      More recently, Janet Bennion wrote about why fundamentalists tend to abuse welfare: "I have documented welfare abuse in my research among both the Allred group and the FLDS. The typical explanation I heard from both wives and patriarchs was that using the government is justified as it is the enemy and that the greater goal in this life is to raise as many righteous seed as possible in the fulness of the gospel. This may require, at certain times, using public assistance to reach the final goal in kingdom building. Welfare, or creative financing, is essential for vulnerable plural wives who do not have any other means of support, either from the group or from their husbands."

      Bennion, Janet (2011-04-24). Polygamy in Primetime (Brandeis Series on Gender, Culture, Religion, and Law) (Kindle Locations 4415-4419). University Press of New England. Kindle Edition.

      Food for thought everyone.

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    11. I agree with Mister Sister…well said. I don't mind people disagreeing with me but when they disagree, it is nice when they disagree without providing a credible source, then I am tempted to fire back. However, I stepped off of this one because I tend to get in trouble on this board a lot, so I waited and justice prevailed. Thanks again.

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    12. And on this note, this particular topic is closed.

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  11. Powerful! Thanks for sharing, Soilent Green.

    3 weeks ago I thought I knew a fair amount about polygamy and I think I did compared to the general population, but hanging out here I feel like you guys just keep scratching back layer after layer on the polygamist groups.

    How old was that girl that just had baby #5? Good grief!

    And another thing-maybe they need dentists, too. Someone needs to be checking on their teeth if they are going to have as many babies as they can! =8-|

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  12. Hi Anon 3:55AM,
    I'm fairly positive that Meri knew Kody wanted the plyg life before she agreed to marry him. She wanted the life too. I do think she was blindsided by the addition of Janelle (her former sister-in-law) because Kody built his friendship with Janelle outside of the family. I think he said he would visit her at work. Meri didn't have an active role in that courtship, something that she remedied when adding wives 3 & 4.
    Meri knows she is the legal wife and she has held it over Kody's head in the past. She's mean, manipulative and selfish. She shows it every time she opens her mouth these days.
    I feel for Janelle because I think she has given up. I think she believed in the lifestyle until she had to share a house with a vicious first wife. She left the 'compound' once in the past and did well enough to buy her own house. She can survive on her own, but for the sake of her children, she returned. I think she is probably the most book-savvy of them all and has to play financial planner/budget police, which is a role that be better left to a impartial party. How do you think she feels divvying up the money, knowing that one household has money to spare while another household, with more children, is coming up short at times? I couldn't do it.
    I was not a Christine sympathizer until recently. Out of all of them, I really feel that she truly believes in the religious aspect of this lifestyle. Even if she wanted to leave, I don't think she 'could' because the act of leaving would jeopardize her eternal life. No room on the planet for those who abandon ship. However she is annoying with her self-limited perspective. By many counts, her grandfather (but I've only read some of the books written by one of his daughters as well as his niece) was an upstanding man, but as some have pointed out, even in the Allred family there were abuses.
    Robin was married into the Jessop family. I've read Flora Jessop's book, but not Carolyn Jessop's. There was quite a bit of abuse within that family. I feel for Robin because I'm sure she witnessed some of it, if not directly experienced it. I think she wanted love and stability. I also think that it was very hard to come into a family where the other wives had such a long history together. It's not easy to be the outsider, especially the outsider who is dismissed as 'the trophy wife'. I think there was a little passive-aggression in that comment.
    I do feel for all of them--I think that maybe this lifestyle sounded easier in theory.
    (oops--can't log in: TG93)

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    1. Robyn's Jessop is an AUB Jessop from Pinedale, WY. There are Jessops in a lot of the different plyg sects. Robyn went to regular public high school which the FLDS never do.

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    2. Not "never"- just not now. The FLDS used to send their kids to 'normal' schools.

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    3. Perhaps but the last name Jessop is as common in some areas as the last name Smith. To believe that all Jessop's or all Smith's are related in today's world is a bit crazy.

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    4. I would venture to say that all the Jessops from any plyg sect would more likely than not be related to each other somehow. The gene pool doesn't run very deep within those sects and they're all breakaway sects off of each other.

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    5. Pinedale, WY huh? That's funny!

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    6. Whoops, I'm not sure that Carolyn Jessop has written a book. I was thinking of Irene Spencer, and I just noticed that I have Kristyn Decker's "Fifty Years in Polygamy" on my Kindle. I think a commenter here recommended it.

      I assumed (yeah, yeah) that Robyn married into 'the' Jessops because of polygamy connection. Either she said or I read somewhere that they planned on practicing polygamy but hadn't married another wife, and then they divorced.

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    7. Run, Plyglets, Run!December 13, 2012 at 2:17 PM

      Hi TurtleGirl93, Carolyn Jessop has written 2 books, Escape and Triumph (I haven't actually read either). She testified last month in British Columbia in a constitutional reference case (inspired by the Blackmore group in Bountiful, B.C.) I found this article covering her testimony about water torture of babies. It's really chilling.

      http://www.vancouversun.com/life/Babies+often+tortured+fundamentalist+polygamists+Witness/4100427/story.html

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  13. Hi Soilent: Thanks for the link. I've noticed that several escapees from Colorado City, including the Lost Boy in the story, Willie Steed, have Southern-style accents. Since that's not common in Arizona or Utah, I find it interesting.

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    1. Hi Magic Undies,

      Hee-hee love the AKA's on this blog ;)
      That's an interesting observation to me, as I love social history and this one does raise questions.

      Mormons came to Utah from "somewhere-else", but are we right to assume most hail from Nauvoo? And to what extent does this place of origin influence the culture of Colorado City-- or what seems the gullibility of its residents.

      I'll check out what I can and would love to see more on this.

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    2. The history of most Mormon families can be traced back to either New England or Upstate New York (which was settled mainly by New Englanders who came to work on the Erie Canal.) A large number of them also have English/British ancestry. Some of them were picked up along the way, in Ohio and Illinois, and even in Missouri, but most of them still came out of New England roots. Missouri in particular was difficult for the Mormons because even though most of America at that time still was settled by UK stock, New Englanders came from the East Anglia region and southerns came from either the Southwestern area or the upper lowland border between Scotland and England or were Irish Protestants (Scots-Irish.) Although geographically these areas aren't far from each other, in style of dress, in style of worship, in style of home and style of government, etc, they were very different. Mormons even today, still draw from their New England roots in the way they built their communities (Salt Lake City was built on a grid system like Boston, not a sprawling system, like Atlanta) the way they run their banking, their power structure (you don't see this as much in New England today, think how dynastic it is -- think Kennedy!) Thinks like that.

      The Fundamentalist Mormons in particular draw from the New England stock because there has been much less movement into the religion than in Mormonism in general. One thing that is very unique about the Browns is how few of them were born into it, although, of course, all were connected to the LDS.

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    3. People from rural parts of Utah, and especially southern Utah, tend to have southern-style accents. It doesn't really have anything to do with where the Mormon pioneers came from as they are from all over the place, and have been living in the western part of the United States for over 100 years.

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  14. About that keep sweet headboard. I find an uncanny similarity between the one girl talking how they errrr told to "keep sweet" and the conversation Meri and Christine had last season about Kody and Christine's relationship. Seems Meri's advice about being happy and upbeat around kody in order to resolve the problems is the same idea!

    Also, I thought is was very inconsiderate to have Maddie put on that dress..could it have brought back painful memories to the girls who had been forced to wear those? Seemed more like it was done for TV.

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    1. I thought about that too but then the more I thought about it the less I thought it was the same. I think Meri was telling her to work on herself first as she is the only one she can fix/change whatever. I know in my own relationship that is true. I don't hold my tongue or words, but I figure out what part of the problem is on my end and work on that and then discuss the issue with my husband or whoever the problem is with.

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    2. Going to Meri for sister wife advice about Kody is like going to the fox for advice on how best to guard the hen house. Hopefully, Christine finally got that one through her head.

      Also, how demeaning was it for Christine when he gave her a whole minute that time she wanted to discuss their relationship being longtime in the shitter and he was done before it got started and was proud he'd just "fixed it all " in under a minute even tho Christine looked completely despondent as he happily skipped away all full of himself AGAIN!!

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    3. 99.9% of the show is done for TV and to get a rise out of anyone no matter the consequences or mental harm on a person.

      I find it funny that the Duggars don't have to have drama or constant crying on their show and they seem to have their contract renewed every season...why do the Browns feel that tears, shock value or turmoil is what is going to bring in the viewers?

      Just a note from me....I actually enjoy watching Sisterwives, but I hate what I see (if that makes sense). I don't want to see them cancelled, but something inside me thinks for the sake of the kids...it needs to be. I am an audience member that hates to be "had" or "pulled one over on"...so when things don't add up it does slowly make me not want to watch the show....as it did with "Jon and Kate" (trying to convince us they were happy) etc...

      So when someone writes "Why do you watch it"...because I CHOOSE to.

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    4. Anonymous 25, 2:15pm.....GREAT points!! You are soooo right about the conversation between Christine and Meri was basically Meri telling Christine to "keep sweet".
      I thought the same about the "dress" display. VERY insensitive on behalf of the Browns. These young people have family and mother's still dressing this way and still in the cult. Hence, why the one girl right away made the point that "as shocking as they think those dresses are, that's how shocked her mother is about her dressing the way she does." Pointing out that the judgement goes both ways.

      How would the Brown's have felt if those young people visiting came with the boy wearing a mop on his head depicting Koty...and the girls came dressed as his wives...

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    5. The dresses were brought by the escapee girls...so they had to pack them in their suitcases for the trip. I suspect that TLC suggested that!! I also think Kody & the Kodettes knew it was coming, since no one looked especially *shocked* at the time...no close-up on jaws dropping to the floor, no storm in a parents' eyes, etc. Surprised TLC did not get those kind of shots. Or maybe they did and the shots were not what they wanted for TV. The talk we get from the parents about the dresses was all couch conversation recorded later.

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  15. Brown-tastic awesomeness:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfIehCrO4Zs&feature=plcp

    Could someone please please do the world a favor and force the Browns to watch this? I'll love you forever.

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    1. The name video was hysterical, Kat!

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    2. LOL, that was awesome!

      I know a little girl in Utah named Aabbccddee. You pronounce it "Ab-suh-dee."

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    3. Thank you, Kat! That video is hilarious!

      I sort of wonder about the people are who gave these children names with oddly phonetic spellings. It's like they have their own language that resembles English when spoken but is quite different when written.

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    4. LOL - loved how the gal, with the "K" names, around the 2 minute mark kept teasing her hair higher and higher

      Sharon

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  16. It's very hard to tell fact from fiction. I started watching this show very much wanting to like them and understand this lifestyle. Recently, though, it seems less real and more Hollywood. Does 15 minutes of "fame" really go to your head and change you so thoroughly? I know they have chosen the lifestyle/religion, but that doesn't make me NOT feel sorry for them. I feel sorry for anyone who is so deluded that they can't see the damage they are inflicting on themselves and others.

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    1. It doesn't seem real anymore and hasn't since Kody felt the need to rush his children out of Utah. Now he is suing Utah for moving and being scared. Now it seems a little dododododod...Meri demanding a wet bar and 5 bedrooms really makes the family look greedy. It is not a real life drama now and probably on one of the last seasons because of it.

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  17. It seems like the whole idea of Kody showing polygamy in a good light has completely backfired. Week after week I see the cracks in their marriage getting bigger and bigger. Janelle looks like she has so much stress trying to manage the finances (or at least control the bleeding), Christine is in la la land ("I didnt realize men could be bastards"- really? ), Robin is attached to Kody's hip at all times, staring at him like a teenager with a huge crush and Meri is lounging around trying to decide if she wants to have a baby secure in her title of first and only legal wife. The whole family seems to be falling apart. Everyon seems to have an agenda which doesnt really involve the family unit. My husband and I just built a house and the stress level was through the roof. Money going out left and right and I'm watching them they act like the biggest obstacle (or at least for Meri) is a hobby or hubby room as she calls it. Really you need a room that is called a hobby room? Duh, you will have like three other bedrooms. Stick a table and chair in there and do your craft or design that jewlery. (which by the way is hideous and expensive). And in case, Kody happens to read this.. Get a haircut dude, you look like a fool.

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    1. i lol'd when Meri said she needed a hobby room for crafts. remember when she went out on Sister Wives Gone Wild in Vegas and all they could think to do was to go to a paint your own pottery stuff place? and she was turning her nose up at everything in there saying, "i hate crafts. i'm sooo not a crafts person." these people can't stick w/a story no matter what.

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    2. Excellent point. She did turn her nose up at the pottery place and did say she hated crafts! Good catch!

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    3. I think she meant her sewing. In the first season and at Christmas you saw her sewing alot.

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  18. I am beginning to wonder if the last two episodes were Kody's ass-backward plan to make himself look better after last season and nachogate. He compared himself to Papa Joe Darger by labeling Joe as "controlling," therby attempting to portray himself as more egalitarian. (Total backfire, Kody. Papa Joe looked like an organized leader, while you looked like the disorganized man-child you are).

    Then, the Browns are compared to polygamous cults. Of course, Kody is a better father than a man with 25 wives and 100 children who subscribes to a culture where women are subjected and oppressed to the point of abuse. But that doesn't make him an interested, involved father. This is a typical ploy - compare a bad situation to a ridiculously bad and abusive situation. Sure, the bad situation comes across looking better - but it is still bad. That is like saying that any parent who doesn't abuse their children is a good parent or that any husband who doesn't cheat on his wife is a good husband. Absurd.

    Interestingly, this episode makes me realize how much each Brown wife embraces polygamy. Even Janelle. After watching this, I realize that they will never leave. :-(

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  19. I want to start off by saying I love this blogand have learned A LOT. I also love reading everyone's comments. Anyway After watching this episode my curiosity was sparked and I did a ton of research on polygamy and the various sects. So far my conclusion is that Meri and Christine have been suffering some kind of abuse their entire lives. Maybe not physical or sexually but verbal/emotional for sure. Christine saying how she hasn't heard good things about Tonya is just an example of how they've been taught to fear. Its obvious the abuse that goes on in the brown home and the kids do not get the attention they need from Kody. Jenelle and Christine's kids are older and at points in their lives where having a dad around is IMO very important. Its clear Kody spends most of his time with Robin and of course Meri. I think Meri only gets his attention because she begs for it the most. He's with robin a lot because, lets face it the sex is " newer". He's done with Jenelle and Christine so he doesn't have to put the time in. After doing some research I don't think Kody is the big idiot he tries to appear as. IMO his moves are calculated just like the other men in polygamy. Just a few thoughts not sure how well they came out since I have about a million running around in my head about this!

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    1. Also, does anyone think Kodybwill try for seven wives since that's the "magic number"?

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    2. IS 7 the magic number? I thought 3 was the magic number! =:-/

      I read the Polygamy Primer. It was a little helpful, but not much. What do they REALLY believe? Is it LDS + polygamy? Each group makes it up as they go along (Anne ... :-/ and "Jesus had wives")

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    3. Something I read said seven was the ticket to the highest level of heaven... I think you're right though each group kinda makes up as they go along. I mean heck Warren Jeff's is making up new rules from his jail cell! Not the that the Browns are like that but just saying its all "tweaked "

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    4. 7 wives? that will mean His Royal Looney must get 3 more wives - to be added into the Brown clan!!!!

      this religion is really strange...... and very disrespectful to women! that is due to the fact that it seems all a woman must do to attain "celestial" happiness in hubby planet is to bear as many kids as possible!

      no wonder Meri is always in tears - she must be daily scared of dying , to findout in "celestial" heaven that there is no space for her! in that case she seems resolved to enjoy herself - wetbars and all......... and no wonder Janelle & Christine cannot leave! what will become of them in the after life?? whose planet will they inhabit???

      really strange religion!

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    5. I think there are a few magic numbers. 3,7, and 12. 3 wives is the standard for them the get into the first level of their celestal kingdom. I heard 5 also. So for Kody having 4 wives is pointless he needs to go to 5 or 7.

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    6. Anon 2:55 yea that's what I was thinking too 4 is pointless so at some point he could take another wife

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    7. I am sure that "God" will let him know when the timeis right.

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  20. I guess I'm the only one who saw the sarcasm in Christine's "I didn't know men could be bastards" comment.

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    1. I guess we all never know what to think of her statements! At first, shock, then thinking...hmmm... I bet she's called Kody that!
      BTW that was a term that really hurt my grandfather. His mother was the kindest woman you know. But her mother made a mistake at a young age, and had her illeg. When my grandmother would get mad, she would call him a bastard, because his mother was. Geez, not her fault!
      Christine didn't pick a good cuss word, I bet we could help her, but of course we won't to keep it clean here.

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    2. I just find it ironic that she threw a fit about Logan saying a swear word last season in front of some of his siblings, and yes she says a swear word that could potentially be very offensive to many involved in polygamy on national television.

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    3. Agree with you, Freya. I thought the same thing.

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  21. Regulatory ScientistDecember 12, 2012 at 9:21 PM

    A previous poster asked about the "green goo", and whether it is okay to market it as a cure to addiction. No, they may NOT market LIV products as cures to addiction. I twittered Kody some time ago asking if LIV is intended as a dietary supplement. He said it is. Per FDA regs, dietary supplements must bear that age old language that "This statement has not been evaluated by the FDA. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease." It's also legally required to be posted on LIV's website too. If you really wanted to make someone's life miserable, you could report this to the FDA. LIV would have to pull its site to add the language and change its labelling.

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    1. Regulatory ScientistDecember 12, 2012 at 9:27 PM

      I meant "food addiction"... or any improvements in performance, focus, etc... etc... I shouldn't type while watching television!

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  22. I haven't seen anyone mention the teaser for the next episode? It was Kody at the Lehi house getting all nostalgic over the life they left there. I was wondering if they are setting us up for the move back to Lehi? The mcmansions could have been a total farce from the beginning just to add some drama/interest to the season. We all agree that nothing about them getting the money for the new houses make sense. It seems like someone said (several weeks ago) that those lots are recorded under someone elses names-not the Brown's? I could be wrong but I don't think they're getting the houses- it's all make believe. We shall see!

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    1. I see he's joined the rest of them on the couch with that crying he's doing while shoveling. I can't wait to find out what in the heck he's shoveling and why he's so emotional about it. If you watch carefully, you'll see his dramatic hair flip when he bends down over the shovel.

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    2. I think he is digging a grave for the family dog.

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    3. I wrote the post wondering about what he's crying about; I'm sorry now that I said it without having more information. I'm sure there are many of us here who can relate to the loss of pet.

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  23. I dont think Christine met a person abused by one of the groups. I read that polygamist can be abusive but I don't KNOW it. Robyn was abused in monogamy. Janelle left the family. In Christine's world you can leave and return on your own agency. She could also have been discussing a specific abuse spoken by the person it happened to. I don't know that everyone knows about wives and children being reassigned?

    As for the money for the kids. The gosselins were ordered to put a single digit percentage into the kids names moving forward after the divorce started. Some states are better than others. Might be the main reason they picked Nevada? Child entertainment laws. I would have thought they'd move to Montana where there is family and they could be secluded and not in Utah? I would Arizona would be a better state to live in. Entire towns of polygamists. Do you think Logan would be attending college if they weren't focusing resources on the kids?

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    1. I believe that only California and Pennsylvania have a Coogan Law to ensure that child actors receive a portion of their earnings. Not Utah or Nevada. It is becoming clear on this blog, at least to me, that children in the state of Utah are not afforded the same protection that I am accustomed to seeing as a resident of California.

      Paul Petersen (former child actor in the 1960s) is the head of "A Minor Consideration" which represents the interests of child actors. While he has not addressed SW specifically, he has written at least a couple articles regarding reality shows, specifically pointing out TLC and F8F as among the worst offenders. I would be quite interested to hear his views on the Brown children.

      As far as Logan's college expenses I would be willing to bet that he's using student loans to finance his education. I hope he is prudent about his expenses and doesn't go overboard. Logan again mentioned that UNLV was the most economical choice for his education.

      Here are a couple of links - CJ I wonder if there is any possibility in contacting Mr. Petersen to get his comments/feedback as a guest blogger?

      http://www.minorcon.org/safety_net.html

      http://www.minorcon.org/tlc1.html

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    2. Nooo...please don't send them to Arizona, my luck they would end up living next door.
      While northern Arizona may have some towns or a town (none I have every visited) that are full of polygamists that is not the norm.

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    3. kms, when the Browns appeared on Anderson Cooper, Christine most definitely met people who had been abused by these groups.

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    4. i completely forgot about that GOOD one!!!

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  24. I've only watched the episode with Christine's "I was afraid they would take my kids," and "I didn't know men were bastards" comments once.

    But knowing that those couch conversations are sometimes taken out of context and edited, I wonder if she was talking about her younger days. Something like this:

    "Back when I was being brought up in a polygamist family, I was taught that all social workers posed a danger to us. Based on what those in my family told me about social workers, 'I was afraid they would take my kids' if they found out we were polygamous. Then I was exposed to the underside of some of the splinter groups and I was appalled. 'I didn't know men were such bastards; I didn't know' that they would abuse young girls and kick their sons out of the group. I'm so glad that our family doesn't subscribe to that."

    I'm just not sure that she was speaking about those who were involved in the episode tonight, and I'm not sure she was JUST finding out about the abusive men.

    I was brought up in an extremely abusive situation, and when others became aware of it when I became an adult and spoke of it, the common response was, "I had no idea that the abuse was going on." There was not a day of my life when I wasn't either being actively abused or living under the fear of the next episode, and people were not aware of it. Abusers are pretty good at hiding their behavior and threatening their victims to intimidate them into keeping quiet about it.

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    1. I like your view on it. I really hope it was an editing thing and not her being so naive.

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  25. I have to admit I started watching Sister Wives because I'm a lesbian. I know what it's like to live a lifestyle that is viewed critically and with judgement. I went into it without judgement and thinking if it works for them, great. That frame of mind has all but fallen apart now. I have seen so much contradiction, neglect, jealousy, and hurt feelings within the family...it's unreal. This is not love and by no means should it ever be multiplied.

    When Logan graduated, you could really see the dynamics between these women. Robyn planned to come late because Solomon might cry. ??? What a lame excuse. Janelle gives her vague texts on when they were to be at the graduation while her and the other wives knew every detail. Quite obvious they are resenting Koty always being at Robyn's and taking it out on Robyn. How about holding Koty accountable for it?
    Then Mary texts Robyn and ask her to bring her camera. (remember she lent them her camera the night Solomon was born). I find it hard to believe Meri didn't have the sense to go get her camera before the graduation. Or maybe she just didn't want to face Robyn because then Robyn could pin her down on a correct timeline of the graduation?

    So there is Robyn driving around lost...and misses the graduation. Finally comes in obviously pissed.
    Janelle gets pissed Koty put too much energy into looking for Robyn and not focused on their son graduating. Through all the chaos of Janelle trying to pin Koty down in his seat to watch his son walk across the stage, she misses getting a picture of him walking across the stage. She then snaps on her daughter when she offer's to show her the video of it she took. Imagine how the young girl felt! Just offering to help her mother and temper her frustration over missing the shot...only to get snapped at by her!

    In a nutshell, Meri rides a high horse because she is the first wife. She don't want to have another baby.... she just can't stand to see the other women popping out babies for him and getting his attention for it, especially after he has made it clear he WILL have more kids. Also let's keep in mind the other wives most likely get welfare for their kids as they have no father legally......Mary would have to foot the bill for any children she has because she does have a husband legally.

    Christine is so full of jealousy over Robyn, it's sickening. Sickening because did she ever consider how the other wives had to deal with her coming into the family? Looks like she can dish it out but can't take it. She's cried about him not spending enough time with her to no avail. In fact he told her why would he want to come around if she's mad at him. Oh that made sense! Turn it around on her! Not that HE'S doing wrong.

    Robyn manipulates through her fake tears and her alleged past abusive relationship. Her poor me crap.

    Janelle seems like she has a head on her shoulder's... but obviously does not have very good children skills. So far we've seen her kids fight until one's nose is bloody and snap on her daughter at the graduation.

    Meanwhile....Koty is the king. He's the only one I see that is truly happy. And why not. From what I see he don't really have much hands on with any of the kids. Just a visitor in each's life. Although the sister wives bicker and hurt each other's feelings, none of them bother him with it. He drives sporty cars and owns a Harley...and an expensive new gun for Christmas. Each wife welcomes him without question or attitude..(because obviously if they are upset at him like Christine, he just don't come around and blames them).... What a sorry excuse for a man.

    The saddest part of this whole situation is the children in it. After watching Janelle snap on her daughter at the graduation, I really wonder what goes on when the camera's aren't rolling.


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    1. I think she was just expressing her disappointment at the whole situation. I've been known to snap at my son when I'm frustrated or stressed at something. I do apologize to him after the fact and that doesn't excuse it, but I think she was just sad and frustrated.

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    2. Janelle's daughter was clearly just being a smartass about the video of Logan graduating.

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    3. Yes, Maddie was definitely being a smartass, and who knows if Janelle apologized off-camera. I think her kids are the most normal and level-headed out of all of them. Her son was fighting with another mother's son, kids fight and sometimes get hurt. It doesn't mean the parent is a bad parent or doesn't have children skills. I think Logan and Maddie are heads and tails above Mariah and Aspyn in maturity and being grounded in the real world.

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    4. I think it is pure nosense that Janelle is more intelligent or her kids are more intelligent than the other wives' kids!

      IMHO, Janelle is the worst mom in Brown clan! by her own admission, she used to leave everything to Christine (including home schooling)........ in fact Logan and Maddies have been a mother and father to their siblings - as far as we had seen!

      as for the kids' intelligence that is individual and cannot be based on a scripted TV show. only time will tell! so do not be surpised if we hear about Dr Mariah Brown, or Dr Aspyn Brown! and do not be shocked if in the end it turns out Maddie is a sisterwife..........

      If I have to rate Brown mothering skills:

      1. Meri - who wants the very best for her daughter, even when they put kids in public schools, she was the only one who stood her ground for Mariah to continue in her private schools! she is there for her child always - she is fierce lioness with her cub!

      2. Christine - she is the model housewife, she takes care of her kids. She is always there for her kids! and she is a fierce lioness, she defends her kids - I still remember the set down she gave to Robyn during the "your kids are bullying my kids"

      3. Robyn - I do not like her much, but she is more handon with her lids than the worst Brown mom. she talks up against any persived maltreatment of her kids(on a regular too). she ensures Kody is hands-on with Solomon - which better mom Christine couldn't do with Truely....

      4. Janelle - she gets the award for worst Brown mom. she proves to all mothers that being a good mom is not all about providing money for kids. what a kid needs more than anything is LOVE and CARE! Janelle is disengaged when it comes to her kids...... she leaves the kids to take care of each other,and worst of all: Janelle do no defending for her kids - she just keep quite, let the her kids take all the arrows coming their way! That must hurt for the kids, no wonder her kids act-up a lot(I do note it's not all her fault).......... they know they have to fight even against other "mother", if they keep quite - no one will do it for them! and that must really be painful!

      I hope she wakes up, be hands on with her kids and stop KEEPING SWEET!

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    5. Whether the kids become doctors or whatever or not (and there are different kind of doctors - not just medical doctors) has as much to do with their educational background and willingness to do the work required to attain that status as it does with their intelligence. Most of their education at least until they moved to LV appears to have either been homeschooling from Christine (I am NOT dissing homeschooling here - but IMO Christine is not qualified and it appears that Utah's homeschooling requirements are much looser than other states' requirements) or at a AUB school. There are plenty of VERY intelligent people of all ages who are lazy/unmotivated/unwilling to do the work required to attain a degree. And let's not even go into the whole financial cost of obtaining the education (I believe an average of 7 years of college/post-grad studies).

      so true...we'll see. but I'm not holding my breath.

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    6. while it may APPEAR that Utah's homeschooling requirements are much looser than other states - in actuality, sadly they're not! Utah is the next category (w/14 other states) of being in the "low regulations" state category. There's a "NO regulations" category beneath that one which consists of 10 states!
      (Idaho, Alaska, Texas, Oklahoma, Missouri, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Connecticut, and New Jersey)

      So, there's a total of 25 States that have a zero to low regulations for homeschooling. that's why notoriously, homeschooling does get the bad PR rap due to lack of accountability for the most part.

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    7. I think Janelle is the most intelligent of the mothers because she realizes that children need to eat, that food costs money and and that money comes from work. The others wives are more demanding for their kids but complaining and filing bankruptcy does not a good parent make.


      Janelle's kids have had to take care of each other a) because Janelle worked for most of their lives when none of their other parents would b) Janelle got fed up with Meri and left at one time.

      If Meri was such a good mom to the kids she claims are all hers, why did Logan have to get up early in the morning and make breakfast for his siblings every day and get them out of bed? Why does Maddie pour out praise for brothers and sit stony-faced next to her dad?

      Delete
    8. It just occurred to me that Robyn had to have a TICKET to the graduation. So, it would have said RIGHT ON THE what the venue was. Forget the "vague texts" from the other wives about the details...she had to HAVE the details right on the stupid TICKET!

      Delete
    9. Thank you @girl2! U just nailed it. While I think they are all good moms to their respective children, I don't think they all operate as real moms to their bonus children as we outsiders might expect. LIke, as was stated, why didn't the other moms help get Janelle's kids ready and not Logan? Why don't the kids just stay at any of the houses, and not just their bio moms? This would alleviate the need for so many houses. Also, right on about Janelle actually going to work for a living, while the others stayed home. Somebody had to do it!

      There are some definite rifts in this family and it shows with how the moms interact with their bonus kids (just one way it shows). I see four distinct families and not just one big family. As an outsider, I thought we were supposed to see the latter. The former doesn't make sense to me as a testimony of the wonder of polygamy.

      Also, again I think all these moms love their kids, but I'm not blown away by how any of them act toward the bonus kids, except maybe Christine when all the kids were little. Why would Robyn need a nanny, other than to keep from having to share a house with Meri (lol)? I think Kody loves his kids too, but he's short on love in action because there's no way one man can give quality time every day to that many kids and wives. He should've figured that out a long time ago. (At least the Duggars all live in the same house.)

      Honestly though, it doesn't even seem to be expected that Kody would be a real hands on dad. See how the wives handle it all? Shouldn't they be calling him to the celestial kingdom instead of the other way around?

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  26. I grew up in Oregon and in the 50s and 60s it was very common---in the summer---for a good chunk of the kids in town to be out harvesting straberries or green beans by hand with local commercial growers. We were paid---something like 2 3/4 cents per pound for the green beans. My best summer I made over $80 which was quite a lot for a kid in those days. I picked beans from ages 10-15. Again--I was paid---but it didn't hurt me at all--and most of my friends were out there doing the same thing. Whole families would be out in the bean fields. Of course, that situation is different than forced, free pecan labor---but my point is that none of us died from being overworked.

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    1. Watch the escaping polygamy video that was posted. It was by ABC news. From that young man's story they worked eight hour days with no pay...I think he was 8 or 10 when it started. Now as a youngadult he is learning how to read. No he didn't die from being overworked but certainly paid high price :( sad. I'm with you its okay for kids to be expected to do some work (washing dinner dishes etc) but not at the expense of education.

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    2. I agree with your point MrSpock. I grew up on raspberry farms. We worked hard as well, and got paid one dollar per flat. That money had to do us all school year. I didn't like it at the time, but now I can see the value in it. It has given me a great work ethic which has served me well. Of course that is a lot different that what has happened to the plyg children.That whole way of life is just so disgusting.

      Delete
  27. Wow!! I haven't been able to watch last Sunday's episode yet, bcuz I've been super busy doing lots of holiday baking. But from everyone's responses, I can tell it must of been a doozy bcuz it has lot's of peeps riled up. Actually from some of the posts I've read, I'm already a bit riled up...

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  28. On a completely different subject, I have been watching the family's twitter feeds. A couple of things stood out to me. A few of the girls have mentioned jobs, so it sounds like the teenagers (at least some of them) work. In addition, a recent tweet from Mariah seems to indicate that she will be going to Europe in the near future...

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  29. I don't know if this has been posted, but I just started watching "I escaped a cult" by natgeo, the story of one of Rulon Jeff's grandkids that grew up in the FLDS.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kc7_032DRWc

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    Replies
    1. I just finished watching this one ..thanks, Lobotomized.

      Uhhh, again.....another disgusting, heartbreaking account of Warren Jeffs and his evil empire. This degenerate may be sitting in prison for the rest of his life, but the damage he has done *and is still doing* to bodies, minds and souls is beyond belief.

      And then the equally degenerate, manical Greens who are just as depraved...and according to this documentary, THEY are still heading their militant religious cult and who knows what horrors are STILL going on within their ranks and compound.

      As long as any of these freaks are allowed to be in society....
      *EVIL* truly walks amongst us !!!!!

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    2. Thank you for sharing. That was quite interesting... and SCARY. What scares me even more is that they report that he's still in control even though he's behind bars.

      I just can't fathom how people get to be so crazy and how they can get so many people to believe every single word they breathe.

      The Brown's are crazy but I think it's a whole other level of craziness.

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    3. I just watched. Horrifying!

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    4. Now tell me who among us has the strenghth to stand up against pure evil, this guy is sick what can we do!

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  30. Brenda,
    I was trying to reply to you but it didn't work. Anyway, regarding the new episode for next week: I think they are burying their dog that died a few months back. The one that was in the very first episode. I think it was a golden retriever and it was Meri's. She tweeted about him passing away during the summer I think. She posted a picture and it looked just like the dog in that episode.

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  31. You know, I have this aversion to polygamy based not on the ideal of one man and multiple wives but from the standpoint of how the women feel. I am convinced and cannot be dissuaded that when a woman (or a man for that matter) watches his or her spouse move from one lover to another and watches them produce offspring and feels him or her leave their bed to move into the bed of another person, great emotional damage occurs. Emotional damages, over time, began to create mental issues that range from insecurities to depression and can turn into paranoia. So, my aversion to polygamy is based on the harm done to those sharing the spouse. When I was quite young and was married to my children's father and he began cheating on me, I thought, what the hell, I don't care. I won't my children to be raised with their father. But, even though I had disengaged from the relationship, I still felt that pain from, by that time, our one-sided-open-marriage. Janelle, Christine, Robyn, and even Meri cannot convince me this relationship is good for them.

    But there's the issue of sharing viruses and bacteria that one woman may have like herpes. Or, even the natural fauna that lives in an individual vagina can cause infection in another vagina where that fauna isn't natural. I don't care how much a man washes, the scent of the other women are there and they create hostility.

    Finally, if I were ever going to share a man, which I won't, but if I did, he would have to be a lot better looking, smarter, much more motivated, and much, much, more mature that these gals' baby daddy. Just saying.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I totally agree with you. It's just not healthy... either emotionally, spiritually, mentally or physically.

      Delete
    2. Agreed. I'm always baffled by the way they talk about jealousy as if it's some kind of personal badge of honor to be able to manage your jealousy and share your husband, and some kind of desirable personal asset to be able to live with constant jealousy. Like it "makes you a better person"??? Sorry, but while jealousy IS a natural human emotion, you shouldn't feel constantly jealous of something your spouse does. A "marriage" based on one spouse being jealous, guaranteed, is not a healthy relationship.

      Delete
    3. and yet none of them ever address the fact that even after 20+years of honing their jealousy skills - the jealousy is all obviously STILL alive and well! They just get skilled at dealing with it in a passive/aggressive way or like Janelle - and just completely check out of the whole thing emotionally but not physically. ;')

      Delete
    4. I would sooo love it if Meri would write a little book of First Wife plyg wisdom for Mariah. or if we could even just hear her words of counsel she'll give to Mariah for her goal of obtaining sister wives in the near future. I bet those would be some humdinger words of counsel! hah!

      Delete
  32. i was thinking christine could have been talking about her past views/younger days also...though she also cheats at MINI GOLF so who knows with her lol

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  33. I think I have read every comment but didn't come across any information on a rental house in LV. I was watching Flipping Vegas "Flood House" and at the end a neighbor came in for the open house and said a man had lived there for about a year with 15 children and 3 women. The house was completely destroyed inside by a flood in an upstairs bathroom. Did the Brown's live in a rental all together in a gated community at first? I have not seen all the episodes so I don't know.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. No, that was another plyg family apparently.

      http://sisterwivesblog.blogspot.com/2011/06/flipping-vegas-flood-house-interesting.html

      Delete
    2. I think SW has done much more harm than good to their "cause". They are not showing polygamy as a wholesome, healthy lifestyle that is just a little different than most people. For myself, I was only vaguely aware of the FLDS abuses. Since watching the show I have read a lot and am sickened. Not only by the FLDS but also by the Browns who make a mockery of their own religion .
      Like some others have said, I have stopped watching the show but continue to read here. Weird I know, love the blog!
      Hooked in Florida

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    3. I'm right with you Anon 9:29 am.

      Delete
  34. OK I am just as cynical as the next commenter, but...I just re-watched the polygamist cult episode and...I think people need to keep in mind how HEAVILY EDITED the episodes are.

    My husband and I have been interviewed by a small news team that came to our house...they were producing a segment/story on military families when the Gulf War began...and we talked to them for over an hour. They asked leading questions, and we were instructed to look in a certain direction and answer in full sentences, as if we had NOT been asked the questions, just as if we were talking. About 2 minutes of all that got on camera.

    Some scenes that have been criticized, for example, Kody saying he would be marriageable to Kolleen in the cult she came from, were VERY cut-and-paste. Sometimes they did not even put the whole SENTENCE in there. Not that I prefer to come to the Browns' defense because I do think they are a bunch of grifters, BUT you have to remember that the couch sections are being spliced in with the "life" sections, and the couch sections involve a producer saying things like, "So Kody, what did you think of Kolleen?" So what seems like a complete conversation on the show is actually filmed in two seperate places and put together by editors, sentence by sentence, to say what THEY want to say. I mean, Kody did have a point, it IS totally weird to think that someone his age would be commanded to marry someone her age.

    Also the Christine drama about 'Wah, I didn't know men could be such BASTARDS' could have been from a whole dialogue she gave on...I dunno...when she first heard about Warren Jeffs ever, in her adult life...and not related at ALL to the escapee teens talking about their own cults.

    It all flashes back and forth and sentences are spliced out of whole conversations and spliced back together with OTHER conversations.
    So...watcher beware...the producers are trying very had to mke you think a certain way and you are by NO MEANS getting the whole story as it was relayed at ANY time.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. That may be true but don't you think years ago when the Browns realized they were being edited to look like dolts, they would have said enough is enough or quit with the dramatic editing TLC?

      Delete
    2. yeah, anony 6:25 p.m. - i'm not into all the "editing" excuses either. too many things don't add up with them. period.

      Delete
    3. It's hard to say no to money and fame. I think THEY think they have a good thing going here. And there is no such thing as "bad" publicity. So, edit away, TLC, oh yeah, where's my paycheck?

      Delete
  35. Do you know when the review will be posted? I greatly appreciate all your hard work. Pleas don't jump all over me SWB posters I'm only asking.
    What is the latest uodate on the houses? Seems like we have a few Vegas dwellers who have done a drive by to see what is going on? Any additional scoops?
    Thank you again.

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    Replies
    1. Hi!

      The review for episode 4 is finally up. I apologize for the delay!

      Delete
  36. It was nice to see, in this episode and the previous one, that Christine seems to be losing considerable weight, and Janelle is getting there, too. They are taking up less couch space. This family needs some physical and emotional health already!

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  37. I have not read comments yet about the speeding tickets! If you have posted, sorry I have not seen them. As Cody was in the glove box before the kiddos left for Utah he mentioned he was tired of paying for speeding tickets. It seemed as if there have been quit a few. The kiddos seemed to ignore Kody as he spoke, totally dissing him.

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  38. LOL, they seem to totally ignore EVERYTHING he says! Tired of paying for speeding tickets, uh-huh. How many are his? He seems like the perpetually-late type.

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  39. Does anyone else remember seeing that beloved dog before??? Is 12 really OLD for a golden mix, that you have to "put him down

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  40. Googling tells me the average life span of Goldens is 11. And that poor dog was ridiculously obese so that it was struggling to breathe just sitting there.
    They did not seem to be looking into any treatment options with a local vet, which is beyond bizarre. You can buy FOUR McMansions, but you can't get the poor old dog some pain meds?!?!

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