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Monday, December 10, 2012

Discussion Page 5 for S05Ep03 "More Sister Wives" AND What's Happening With Those Houses Part Deux


PLYG - CATION 2012





 
 
 
 
 
 
 

199 comments:

  1. I don't understand why there are mostly these picture blogs here. I would like more commentary.

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    1. I'm working on the review at this very moment, and an update on the Cul de Sac houses is coming next. If you've already watched the latest episode, please feel free to join the discussion!

      I appreciate your patience!!

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    2. is there somewhere to look at the floor plans of the new houses? I am so curious!

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    3. Oooh...is it wrong that I'm excited about the update on the houses? :P

      And your review too, of course!

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    4. I'd love to know where these houses are supposed to be (I have a suspicion). I'm going to Vegas next week, and I'd love to see if anything has been built on the "cuddle sac." (You know, it makes me want to gag just to type that!

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    5. Thank You :) I always love reading your stuff.

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    6. Hey, good snark takes time :).

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    7. Anonymous December 6, 2012 6:45 PM
      Said:
      "I don't understand why there are mostly these picture blogs here. I would like more commentary."

      Understand our blog. Many like to discuss the show, we offer that area. Writing takes time. There are literally 100's of other interesting posts on the blog. Please enjoy them and not complain!

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  2. It's too bad these fundamental polygamists need to have a man heading up the family. Janelle seems more capable of keeping these loons in order if she only had the power. Kody could fill in the role of 4th sister wife because he's already an expert on the whining, crying & complaining. I'm sure one day of actually having to care for his small army of children would probably cure him of his obsessive need to reproduce!
    I actually think they are all on psychiatric medication at this point(Meri & Kody seem in need of a dosage hike to better control the delusions, however).

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    1. If I had to make an educated guess as to who is on anti-depressants, I would say definitely Janelle and Christine (possibly Janelle much longer than Christine). I didn't see the episode so it may have been shown but I wonder if that is something that came up "off camera" between the two families...a discussion about which adults may experience depression or other mental health issues and when in their lives/relationships it occured/what they did for treatment if any.

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    2. Usage of antidepressants could explain the women's weight gain.

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    3. I agree.
      Several of the Brown women do seem to be medicated....or should be!

      And not saying that they *are* on meds, but the Darger women also seem to be collectively subdued.
      Maybe for them it is an acquired..or perhaps a *required* pattern of behavior.

      It does seem that for women in the Plyg World, they either must learn to stifle any inherent animation or natural frustrations...
      Or eventually medicate to be able to accept a lifestyle that is riddled with jealousy, condescension and rationed marital intimacy and privacy.

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    4. Got to Get Me a Sausage TopDecember 7, 2012 at 10:54 AM

      Hi Boston Corgi, Yes I think Janelle could lead this mob....but then it would be called Polyandry, where a woman marries 2 or more brothers (brother husbands). You would need to go to Tibet to see examples of this. They have been living this way since 2300 B.C.E.

      Hey.....how about a new reality show about Polyandry? After all - it has a much longer track record than these American Plygs. They just copied the idea from the women of Tibet. HA!

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    5. I would want to be heavily medicated to endure that religious lifestyle. Dargers or Browns or any of them. I've yet to see a truly happy and emotionally healthy one exist. at least in any of the religiously mandated ones. I've seen a few that have no religious dogma attached that had it worked out to a certain level but it was more of an open marriage /commune type atmosphere and there weren't any kids brought into it.

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  3. It seems the Darger show IS coming to TLC in the form of a one hour documentary to be shown on TLC Dec. 18th at 10pm. Joe posted it on the Darger blog yesterday.

    Joe says:
    December 5, 2012 at 12:21 am
    Great and timely question, we will have a one hour documentary special out this month. We were just informed today TLC will air it on December 18th at 10 PM ET

    http://lovetimesthree.com/plygcation-with-the-browns-on-sisterwives/

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  4. Thank you Cynical Jinx for all you do!! Anyone else notice that one twin looks much older than the other? When I first saw them, I thought these were sisters and I was shocked to learn they are twins? And I understand that the younger looking one had a harder life and battled thyroid cancer? Do you think that one has had plastic surgery and the other hasn't?

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    1. yes, i noticed that third wife looks a little younger/softer, too. I'm not sure how many kids the other wives have had but it's listed on their blog site that she's had NINE!

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    2. I noticed that too about the twins! I actually noticed it back when they did their special on 20/20. I always thought the one that looks older (Vicki) had aged more from being married to Joe for a longer time than her sister haha

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    3. About the Darger twin sisters and the circumstances of the 2nd one joining the family when she was divorced and out on her own with kids and was apparently floundering....
      I get that "Papa Joe" wanted to help her out (and likely her twin and her cousin also wanted help for her) and he did agree (since he is the ultimate decision voice) to absorb her and her family into his family to provide care and security for them. That was a decent, a very decent thing to do.

      These situations can and do happen in many families...non-plyg families as well. However it doesn't mean that the needy relative also becomes a new bedmate. Payment for services???

      Listening to the twin describe how when her sister came to visit them, she saw "a spark" fly between her twin and Papa Joe and realized then that Joe now wanted her sister too....that was creepy to hear.





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    4. >>These situations can and do happen in many families...non-plyg families as well. However it doesn't mean that the needy relative also becomes a new bedmate. Payment for services???>>

      Yeah, I wonder about that, too! My sister lived with us for a while. She stayed for free... because we love her...

      Maybe it is an easy sell if you need a husband to get into... the Celestial Kingdom (correct term??)

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    5. I've always been fascinated by twins and twin psychology so this is very interesting. I've never seen such a huge difference in appearance. I would be curious to know more about it if anyone has any information. Did the younger one have her thyroid removed? Maybe that altered her aging process somehow? Although Vicki has struggled with post partum depression correct? Depression can certainly age us. Any doctors or expert opinions?

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    6. I am glad you see a difference in the twins appearance. Across the Web they are hailed as "identical twins", and Meri comments that she will need more time in their company to tell them apart.

      And I scratch my head saying, "identical?". Sister's certainly, fraternal likely. But they do not appear identical to me, though I do not doubt they've established that at an earlier point in their lives.

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    7. SoilentGreen, thanks for the reply! I agree with you. It's just so odd to me. Perhaps the twin that looks so much younger is just genuinely happier because she came from such a horrible situation into this loving family with her twin. It certainly seems that she is much happier in pictures compared to her older looking twin who always seems tense/pensive, and forcing a smile in all of her pictures. I would imagine it would have been hard after having a routine with Alina after all those years to watch your husband fall in love with your twin. Nomatter how much you love your twin and want her out of a bad situation, that must have been and is still is very difficult. Couple that with post partum depression with each child possibly, and I would understand her looking older.

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    8. "These situations can and do happen in many families...non-plyg families as well. However it doesn't mean that the needy relative also becomes a new bedmate. Payment for services???"

      Thank you. My sister was in an abusive first marriage. When my husband and I came home from our honeymoon she was in a shelter with her kids. We had her and the kids move in with us right away. We did NOT add her as a wife to our family. We helped her get back on her feet and make a new life for herself and her kids. I don't think the Darger's tale of how they saved the sister is heartwarming at all. To me it rings of taking advantage of someone when they are at their lowest.

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    9. I thought it was so odd the way her twin told the story of the "spark" she saw between them when she came to visit and "just knew" they were going to be married. dang - things are pretty basically simple and FAST in the plyg "fall instantly in lust i mean love again" world!! Didn't PJ and her twin already know each other as brother and sister-in-laws before anyway? if not, why not?? "Enquiring" minds want to know!! ;' p

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    10. Now that I've searched for some more pictures of the "twins" I'm fairly certain that they are not in fact twins and are sisters that share a birthday or something like that. Someone else mentioned that they use the terms triplets and twins in their family for siblings who share birthdays but are different ages. Can anyone verify this? If they are not in fact identical twins, why would they lead everyone on as if they are? Are they looking for something to make their story more taboo and thus more news worthy?? Something rubs me the wrong way with this family...

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    11. Anony 8:13 - Why wouldn't you believe they are twins? I can understand not being sure that they are identical, but they could easily be fraternal twins. I know twins who barely look like siblings let alone twins. I also graduated with a set of twins (30) and one appears to be at LEAST 15 years older than the other simply because she bakes herself in the sun and has a very leathery look. Even identical twins age differently based on lifestyle choices (alcohol, sunbathing, drugs, etc.), stress, abuse, and who knows what other factors. I guess I just don't understand why you are so certain they aren't twins at all.

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    12. Twins can be very different. I have many in my family. It may be one got the mother's skin type, the other the father's.

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    13. I thought identical twins had to have the same of everything, including skin type?

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    14. Did I miss they are identical? I know many twins that look just alike that are not identical. If they have said that, I missed it.

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    15. I have twin sisters and they do look alike on first glance but there are definitely differences. the one that lives in SoCal definitely has that "housewives of Orange County" look and the one who lives here in the Bay Area has a Hillsborough Mom look. both different. That said, often without planning they end up dressing the same - at my birthday party they both showed up (two hours apart) wearing a white long sleeved blouse and jeans. LOL everyone laughed including me! Its a Twin Thing!

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  5. On depression, I have read articles that LDS women (not poly) have a higher rate of depression than women in the general population.. I have often thought that Knowing your eternity depends on your husband "calling " you UP..means being sweet and compliant here..that is very stressful .

    Also neither of these families must wear the magic underwear.. they can not be hidden under bathing suits very well. it is my understanding they are to have them on at all times .

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    1. My husbands grew up LDS although he left the church as a young adult all of my in laws are still practicing. I was surprised to learn that ot only are they all on anti-depressants they also are all on one pain med or another.

      I also noticed the lack of "garments" on the beach. When my sister in laws go to the lake with us they wear very concealing suits so that their garments can be worn under them.

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    2. Obviously, they do not have to wear their garments under their swim suits. Mainstream mormons do not wear their garments with their swim suits, either.

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    3. Right, mainstream LDS do not wear garments under bathing suits, when they exercise, etc.

      Also, this notion that women cannot get into the Celestial Kingdom without a husband/man is false.

      Finally, not all LDS women are unhappy nor are they mostly on antidepressants.

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    4. Info Corrector, is it true there are 3 different levels within the Celestial Kingdom?

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    5. There are three different levels of, well, basically, Heaven, the Celestial Kingdom is one of those. Within the Celestial Kingdom, there are levels as well.

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    6. I have quite a few LDS friends and, as info corrector said, they don't wear their garments while swimming, BUT they do wear very modest swimsuits usually with a swim skirt or shorts on top. I'm not talking Dugger style (www.wholesomewear.com), but non revealing one pieces or tankinis as long as they have LONG tanks (www.limericki.com). Boobs aren't flying all over the place and stomachs are covered. This may not be the norm, but it is among my friends

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    7. Info Corrector, are women are allowed into all 3 levels of the Celestial Kingdom without being married?

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    8. I noticed the Darger women aren't even wearing their garments under regular clothes. the one was showing peek-a-boo cleavage in her coral top at dinner and on their road trip to get there, one had a complete see-through top on and another had cut-away sleeves that blew open up to the shoulder. they just dress pretty modestly for the most part but in no way are wearing garments all the time - if ever. Since they call themselves "orthodox" mormons now instead of "fundamentalist" mormons, maybe they have ditched their garments completely??

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    9. Xenia,

      No, but neither are single men allowed into all the levels of the Celestial Kingdom. The highest level is for married men and women. One cannot be there without the other.

      Also, in order to have actual garments, you have to be active, mainstream LDS, unless they made their own, the Dargers and the Brown's as well, would not have access to them. You have to prove your current membership and have a current Temple Recommend in order to purchase them.

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    10. I know the Dargers aren't AUB, but wouldn't the AUB just have their own "garments" available for purchase like the LDS does?

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    11. It's possible, but I doubt it. The LDS Church has several locations where they produce the garments. I don't know that a smaller group like the AUB would have the ability to make them on a large scale. Besides that, from what I've noticed, I do not think the Browns wear garments. I think they still dress as if they wear them, or the older, longer styles of them, but I don't think they actually wear them. Kody may wear a regular undershirt, but it doesn't appear that the wives wear them. I could go into more detail but I want to respect the LDS religion, no one needs to discuss another group's underwear.

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    12. I know the FLDS has garments, because several of the books (such as Carolyn Jessop's) have talked about them. I don't know about the AUB in particular.

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    13. The LDS garments have been easily googled online in lots of places for quite a few years now. I think anyone who's curious knows what they look like by now. I saw a resurgence of them being plastered everywhere w/Mitt's run for President.

      Yes, the FLDS wear old -school ones over what the mainstream wear. I thought a former AUB here a year or two ago, told us that the AUB's goes down to their elbows and past their knees. A little longer styled version of mainstream but not as old-school as the FLDS's.

      The Browns definitely look like they've been wearing them alot of times but the Dargers do not look like they ever wear them as "independent" or "orthodox" Mormons - whichever name they're calling themselves today.

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  6. Cynical Jinx: Thank you so much for this blog and for all the work you do. I have only recently discovered it and I must say it's more fun to read than the actual show!!

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  7. I wish that someone would fill Meri in on what a real apology is. A real apology would have involved taking Meri's responsibility for her own past behavior, expressing dedication to not repeating that behavior, and attempting to make amends.

    For example: "Janelle, I am sorry that I belittled you and dismissed your feelings when you joined the family. It was unfair to treat you that way. I should have been kinder to you. I will make an effort from now on to ensure that I am treating you equally, and I hope that you will tell me if I fall short. What can I do now to bring us to a better place together?"

    This website has the steps of a real apology, and is worth a read if you have time.

    http://www.expressivecounseling.com/the-real-apology/

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    1. YES!!

      I think Meri regrets her past actions towards Janelle only NOW because she has been exposed. She cannot convince me that she did not know that she was abusive at that time. She knew.

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    2. Sure, she's sorry. Sorry she got called out on national television.

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    3. It bothered me when Meri tried to apologize, but then justified her actions by saying "It's just the way I was raised. I was raised to believe that I was free to say whatever I wanted." Why the lightbulb didn't go off at that moment, I will never understand. Just because you have an opinion about something doesn't mean everyone else wants to hear it. It's poor manners to not use some discretion and a filter when you're about to blurt something out that may be insensitive and outright cruel.

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    4. Vegas Mom, Meri's "justification" of her behaviour towards Janelle also bothered me because she was using classic bully techniques: minimizing the bad behaviour, blaming the victim for being bothered by the behaviour, making herself a victim of her upbringing, and talking over the actual victim. She's quite skilled in the passive-aggressive bullying arts. She wasn't sorry for what she did.

      Magic Undies, thanks for the description of what constitutes an honest, real apology. Giving a proper apology like that is humbling - as it should be.

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    5. Both Meri and Robyn have been able to take passive/aggressive behavior to a whole art level. PLUS Kody's sooo easy to manipulate. Not rocket science for those two ladies at all. They both recognize what the other one's doing with Kody, too, and Robyn knows she still has to stay on the good side of FIRST WIFE MOTHER MERI but Janelle and Christine are of no significance nor threat to her w/Kody at all.

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    6. Musings from a twinDecember 10, 2012 at 8:13 PM

      Thank you!! I wish she would issue a real apology too! This is the way my sister "apologizes" to me, I'm sorry you felt bad, but here is my out and here is why this is your fault! Even when she was dating my boyfriend! I'm sorry, but maybe the reason I like sister wives so much is because I can relate to all the passive aggressive nonsense. And the jealousy, I'd be lying if I said I couldn't admit to that.

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  8. I have not read every comment on all five pages so maybe this was already addressed. I really cringed at the discussion of leadership and authority on the couch, especially when Kody expressed something like "maybe the problem is nobody follows my leadership" and then Robyn and Meri sycophantically chorused that they would gladly obey him. Dead silent from the other side of the couch. All I could think is that people don't follow a leader who doesn't lead with competence. You don't follow a man because he is a man. You follow someone who has repeatedly made good decisions, or who has demonstrated vision, efficiency, whatever leadership qualities you prize. You don't get respect as a leader just by loudly proclaiming you should have it. The house is chaos because their culture dictates that wives are equal, which means Kody should be the de facto leader. No wife will follow another's bossing. But Kody is incompetent as a leader and they all know it, which is why chaos ensues.

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    1. Can I get an Amen!! Very well said!

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    2. You have made excellent points !!

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  9. Is it just me or is Krody looking a little more then just a wee bit paunchy these days? Hit the Gym old man, or you'll never repopulate the world!

    Also I love how much Janelle is just DONE with everything having to do with the family. No emotion when Meri cried, didn't want to take part in the family "goals". And the Dargers were judging the Browns up down and all around no matter what they say. It was awesome.

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  10. Don't know if this has been covered in a previous post, but can someone tell me why the families had to "split up" instead of just having one home for the Browns and one for the Dargers?

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    1. My guess would be that the producers just couldn't find a large enough rental...I think they were fortunate to find two large rentals side by side as it was!

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  11. Yes, I noticed Kody is looking particularly gross of late.

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    1. yes, that's why we like to combine the two and just call him Grody. :)

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  12. I wouldn't hold my breath for Meri to ever have any kind of self insight or empathy towards anyone. Sad, sad woman.

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  13. I love reading everyones opions about sister wives and very often feel the need to grab krody by that soon to be balding head of his and shake it hoping it would knock some sense into him. I just finished watching sundays episode and am wishing janelle would smack that fake crying right out of meri then walk right out the door. All i see in her eyes anymore is DONE and i keep hoping she walks away and gets some of her power back. I hope for kristine also and the way she was going on about joe was priceless. I can only guess that her high praise of him is why we didnt get to see more of the tlc teasers they use to keep me comin back for more. meri and robyn deserve each other and i cannot even feel anything for them and their manipulative ways. im am so frustrated by this show now and the complete lack of respect for earning money even though there are 5 able bodies to work. How can this be any example for there kids? grr sorry thanks for letting my vent

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  14. Long time reader and I love this blog. This show and family and so inane that I had to finally post a thought I've had. Since the nice to Vegas, it seems everyone has noticed a steep decline in the Brown family as a unit. It makes sense though because Janelle and Christine have finally gotten a taste of independence and privacy. Robyn was never with them at the old house so of course keepin her independence and privacy is much more appealing than living with all of the new family. Aaaaaaaaaand Meri, I think someone said she and Kody were married for 3 years before Janelle came. She has finally gotten back the privacy she had with Kody to herself when they were newly weds by living in her own house. As we can all tell she is insanely jealous and petty but I would probably have a lot of anger, too, if I had to start sharing my husband after 3 years together.

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  15. Regarding Meri getting way more house than she needs, maybe it is Cody's selfish choice and none of them are publically acknowledging it. He is both co-owner with Meri and he's very selfish. He wants his own piece of the financial pie, not just the "wives". Could be editing to not mention this angle to keep speculation and ratings up.

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    1. I think so too. He may automatically own half with Meri due to their legal marriage.

      I'd like to know if he owns half of the other houses also. I'm sure he could do this by signing with the individual "sister wife". It is not made clear by the show that he has done so, but his involvment with each house, and pushing for many rooms makes this likely.

      If so, Kody's combined share in the homes is largest by far.

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  16. Just saw this on my FB news feed and immediately thought of Meri:
    "You don't have to disrespect and insult others simply to hold your own ground.

    If you do, that shows how shaky your own position is."

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  17. Oooooohhh, anon 12-6 11:16pm---very interesting thought. He IS an extremely selfish guy.

    I have so many thoughts after watching the latest episode, but will try to keep it short so people don't skip my post. ;)

    When Kody compared Joe's preparation/blueprint for multiple wives to his lack of prep----we all know why you didn't research it, Kody--because you jumped on the opportunity and your only thoughts were about pu*$y.

    The dysfunctional Dargers came off looking normal (with twin sisters and their cousin all screwing the same guy!!) and made the Browns look fat, lazy, and unorganized, plus immature, petty, and jealous.

    Meri, Meri, Meri. You snout-nosed manipulator. You are beyond redemption.

    Janelle and Christine~ if you two could pull forth the energy to leave...come on!!! You both deserve, and could easily have, the love and devotion of your own personal husbands. Leave.

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  18. Meri has to be the author of the no public affection rule.

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    1. Meri has so many emotional problems. Why does she need a huge house when her daughter is 17 and she will be paying for college next year? How does she think she will have money for college? Why doesn't she forego the house, go rent a 1 bedroom apartment and use the money she was going to use for the house on college instead. I work with someone who insists her daughter get A's so she can get grants and scholarships, why not try saving for her instead? Not all kids can get A's. Even if they do get "scholarships and grants" it will not cover most of it.

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    2. Couldn't agree more! Meri is so far removed from reality, in the sense that normal families cannot have wet bars and french doors, for goodness sakes. She is on a constant power trip, always pulling out the "only 1 child" trump card. She sets the precedent in the family. If she were not so selfish, and if Kody had the spine to EVER put his wimpy foot down, they would not be in the financial mess they're in. Meri just doesn't get it because she's out for Meri, period.

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  19. Maybe these houses are legally owned by the Brown Family Trust or whatever their trust is called. That way all the houses and everything else would be owned in common. This is not meaningful while they live in them, other than perhaps paying more than a quarter share of the total payments when your 25% is in actuality more or less than that. It becomes critical if property is sold.

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    1. that's what I thought would be the fairest way for them to own homes. But they won't actually own them for 30 years, assuming they are using a traditional mortgage. Iv read here, they have two mortgages on their Utah home, and it is owned by Meri, kody, and Janelle.

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  20. Long time reader, first time poster......

    Several pages ago there was a discussion about why Meri hadn't been trying to get pregnant by any means possible during the previous 16 years or so since Mariah was born, or at least since her miscarriage. I think the only time IVF or surrogacy of some form was even remotely possible for Meri has been since the family started the TLC show. Someone posted that IVF treatments cost around $19,000. (I don't know how inclusive this figure is of all associated costs.) Where would they have gotten the money? Meri worked part-time,not a lot of money and probably not the chance of getting insurance. If she was ever on any type of state medical insurance they weren't going to pay for fertility treatments. I would think that many insurances would not pay for such treatments anyway. Since she is the legal wife then Kody might have had insurance on her, but realistically was it even an option before TLC?

    These people were living in rental places, filing for bankruptcy, etc....no one was showing anyone the money. Poor and even Middle Class Americans often don't have the luxury of fertility treatments.....And adoption, please, who/what agency is going to give a positive home study on a family that was obviously breaking the law....even if they weren't ever going to be prosecuted for it. Private adoption is just as expensive as fertility treatments, so once again it circles back to the money.

    If TLC had aired Sister Wives even 5 years ago no doubt Meri would have tried any means possible to become pregnant.

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    1. I had in vitro and we were middle to lower class. We wanted a baby so much we found a way. If Meri wanted a baby she would have gotten in vitro. She doesn't seem to want another baby, she just wants the to boo hoo about it.

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    2. i thought Meri had a miscarriage just a year or two before she brought Sobbin' into the family??

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    3. @charlottsmom - I agree it is possible, but with 10+ children it makes it highly unlikely. I think Meri was more involved with the other wives children at the time, so the issue may not have come into play until the move to the house in Utah, combined with her age.

      I also have had fertility problems, and although am college educated with a decent job for over 9 years and married for 14 years, I can not afford in vitro. It would not be humanly possible in this financial climate to come up with the needed money. Fortunately we are in the process of adoption.

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    4. Charlottesmom, my guess is that you had one husband who also had no children, and who wanted a child as badly as you did. So you cut costs, saved money, and made it possible.

      Kody probably did not care, as long as he was getting his children from somewhere else. His comments to Meri just the other week indicate that. Plus, he is clearly allergic to saving money for a big expense like this! So while I'm sure Meri would have been glad to try IVF 10 years ago (especially in her culture, where having lots of children is pretty much the only thing a woman can do), Kody was probably the one who didn't care and therefore it wasn't done.

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  21. I was curious about the holiday ornament. When I looked on the web site, it stated it was already sold out. Could that many people actually be buying it or do you think there was only like 10 made? Most sites list a backorder date when it will be available again and I didn't notice that either.

    I went to the Holiday craft show last weekend. When I got to their booth I was met by Christine and Janelle. They were very nice and acted like they knew me and my daughters. I asked about the ornament because I had seen it on their website and thought I might buy one. Well, what do you know, they didn't have any. They had already sold out on the website previously and didn't even have any available for the Holiday craft fair (which I thought was quite lame considering it was a Holiday craft fair). So Kody jumps in and I fill him in on my disappointment about the ornament being out of stock. His reply was "well you can probably go on eBay and find it there. You'll probably have to pay 3 times what it's worth, but we want them to be limited so there is a higher demand for them." Sorry, but I was barely gonna spend $12 on the thing. I'm certainly not going to buy one on eBay for 3 times what it's worth. No thanks! He said they thought about ordering more, but were told they wouldn't have them until Dec. 21st and they figured that would be too late to ship them out and keep people happy. Oh well, another poor decision on their part.

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    1. Kody is such a horrible businessman. He has no idea what he's doing, and obviously Robyn doesn't either. It's clear he's out to make a quick buck, at least he could be smart about it. I bet you they only had 60 ornaments in stock to begin with.

      I see this little business venture going belly up in about 6 months.

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    2. What do they sell at their booth? LIv the green juice that makes their hair so thick and bodies so healthy or that beautiful jewelry?

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    3. Thanks for sharing your IRL interactions with the Browns. I'm just fascinated by this family, especially watching Grody's narcissism at play. I enjoy these stories!

      Delete
    4. If they have enough money 2 by 2,000,000 dollars worth of houses why are they working at a craft fair. Either TLC doesn't pay that much or you can make a lot of money at craft fairs

      Delete
    5. OMG could Kody be any more of an idiot??? Sure, they wanted to have limited supply but any person capable of the smallest amount of thought would know to have some on-hand for the show.

      What a bunch of morons.

      Oh, and I expect that these lame ornaments will be lucky to go for their original purchase price on eBay, let alone three times their original price.

      Delete
    6. i think there was only one Christmas ornament and they're just relieved it finally sold!

      Delete
    7. yeah, Kody's saying "you can go on ebay and probably find IT there. you'll probably have to pay 3 times what IT's worth." IT = the one and only ornament we made and sold. lol

      Delete
    8. OMG Haremhater. There are some freaking funny comments on here, but yours were the first two that made me SNORT with laughter.

      Wow, are the Browns high-powered business tycoons, or what? Although actually, attending that craft fair was probably more work than they did for the first 11 months of the year.

      Delete
    9. OMG! I just saw this about the ornament and not having any in stock! I just spit out my yogurt. :-P

      Sorry - neither the ornament nor any of their crappy ass fugly jewelry would be considered a "craft" in any sense of the word. why are they even there? if they have no crafts to sell...I bet they were next to the Vita-Mix sales person and the real reason they are there is to get people to sign up under them in LIV.

      Yup spending the weekend at their little table in a local craft show instead of doing interviews on national TeeVee to plug their new season? I can see TLC has a lot of interest in keeping the show going. zzzz

      Delete
    10. CJ I think you might be overestimating that amount of ornaments made by about...30. and it is to laugh, how the Browns could clearly care less about their fan base. One would think that most of the fans just on the TLC SW official page would be willing to buy one.

      Gawd, even when they have a chance to make a little money they shoot themselves in the foot! It wouldn't have been a fortune but might have helped in the Christmas gift fund for the kids.

      Delete
    11. *snaps fingers* I've got it!!! Kody wants it to be like a baseball card and is holding onto them until he can sell them for hundreds of dollars - maybe more if they are autographed! yup! that's it!!!

      earth to Kody - in order for anything to have a collector value, there has to be a DEMAND for the item. I can't see that happening here...lol

      Delete
    12. I'm guessing that the goal is ultimately for each wife to have her own "business" to use as a tax loss shelter. If the jewelry actually was successful, that would be a problem, not a solution. Meanwhile, they can deduct home offices, shipping rooms, mileage, travel expenses, meals, hospitality, etc. etc.

      Delete
    13. you can only claim your own business as a loss for just 3 years or so, iirc. after that, the IRS views it as a hobby. and rightfully so.

      Delete
    14. You have to show a profit three out of five years, actually, and profit is a very very fluid term. And you actually can consistently show a loss under certain circumstances depending on what paperwork you are filing. Again, because they are entertainment, they are almost certainly under heightened IRS scrutiny. So they have little to lose (except some money) by pushing the boundaries.

      Delete
  22. I actually liked the Darger family and how in sync it seems. I believe if the Dargers want their own show they better get ready to be dissected to death over every little thing. I think all the Darger woman are really pretty and in great shape and they've had a million kids and yet there's everyone already picking them apart.

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    Replies
    1. That's what happens when you go on reality television. Something tells me the Dargers are smart enough to realize that, and will not let it bother them.

      Delete
    2. I disagree in the sense that I think a;though they're very media savvy and unless they have plans to never look at any blogs no woman in the media and that includes many celebrities is really prepared to be disparaged over weight, age, apperance etc. It will effect them especially the comments about how one twin looks better than the other and so forth. If their show gets picked up by season 2 all the wives are going to be either completely over weight a la Brown family or totally anorexic. I do agree though that is the price you pay to be out there publicly for all that money, certainly something I'd never want to subject the sanity of my family for.

      Delete
    3. "Reality" shows have been around now for more than a decade. I'm sure Dargers are smart enough (i'm SURE they've watched the past years of the Grody Brown Clown show at the very least) to know the old saying applies, "if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen!" when it comes to being on a reality show.

      No one holds a gun to anyone's head to force them unwillingly to go on a reality show. I can't imagine in this day and age now, anyone signing up for one without their eyes already wide open going in. But fame and greed can be a tempting aphrodisiac for some regardless of the sellout required.

      Delete
    4. Bwahahaha, "Grody Brown Clown show", priceless!!!

      Delete
    5. There was one post on the previous comment page that was such a glowing endorsement of the Dargers vs. the Brows that I had to wonder if it was written by one of the Dargers. Anyone ever wonder who's hiding behind these comment "handles"?

      Delete
    6. I would guess Joe Darger would access how reality works, what they need to do, and the pros and cons, not just the money. You know, THINK about it. LOL

      Delete
  23. I just checked eBay. There were NO ornaments there. But even if there were, they would apparently be free, because "three times what it's worth" would still be $0. "We want them to be limited so there is a higher demand for them." Delusion, thy name is Kody Brown.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. AND . . . IF they were to sell on eBay for $50 each, NONE OF THAT MONEY GOES TO THE BROWNS. (Unless they are the ones who list and sell them for that.)

      This man just makes my shake my head in disbelief.

      Delete
    2. They are selling it on the MSWC website with the jewelry. It's at the bottom. They charge 11.95 for it. Currently out of stock (was in stock a few days ago).

      Delete
    3. The Sophia character on Golden Girls would tell Krody "Don't pee down my leg and tell me it's raining." It could apply to just about everything he says.

      Delete
    4. (Unless they are the ones who list and sell them for that.)

      For some reason I wouldn't doubt if Kody has already set up an ebay account to do just that!

      Delete
    5. Hey, AnonymousDecember 7, 2012 8:43 AM

      Judge Judy says that a lot, too! She even wrote a book with that as the title.

      Delete
    6. YES! For Kody to spout off that ridiculous crap about ebay you KNOW he's the one selling it for 3 x or whatever.

      Delete
    7. EBay? Seriously Kody?? I'm betting someone will come across one next year at a garage sale or thrift store. maybe in one of those bundled plastic bags..LOL

      Delete
    8. OK - I checked ebay using the following search terms:

      Kody Brown Ornament
      Sister Wives Ornament
      My Sister Wifes Closet Ornament
      My Sister Wifes Closet

      nothing, nothing. The only things that came up related to the browns were DVDs of past seasons and used copies of the book. yup.

      Delete
    9. ugh . . . i read their book for free and STILL couldn't finish it. boring bullcrap. of course, it validated what a horrible (and unhappy) wretch we already knew Meri was.

      Delete
  24. In response to them being twins. On love times three blog they have a post about triplets and state twins and triplets have a different meaning. They have 3 kids that share the birthday and call them triplets but are different in ages. Maybe this is the same with Vicky and Val. They share the same birthday but different year.

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    Replies
    1. Kristie, GREAT INFO! That very well could be it. I do think they look alike. I'm not sure if it's enough to consider them identical twins??? The twins I've known I could always tell apart but they had such minimal differences that many couldn't tell them apart. I don't know, I'm not a twin expert but great info and thanks for sharing!!

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    2. IMHO I don't think they are identical twins. The twin who looks older also has hands and other parts of her body that look older than the other as well, not just the face. Just my opinion but I'm curious now. Anyone know for sure?

      Delete
    3. If you see earlier videos of them (like the 20/20 interview), they look a lot more alike then. Did one of them just have a baby?

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    4. they're the easiest "identical" twins i've ever seen to quickly tell apart! hmm . . .

      Delete
  25. Ok, I will try this again. I love love love this blog! CJ you are phenomenal! A couple of things have bothered me over the last two episodes: first, when Meri says, "I'm sorry, Janelle, if you think I took something that was yours" (or words to that effect). Really, Meri? Passive/agressive much? Janelle was the second wife. She provided the first born SON! Does she feel more that Janelle "took something" that was hers more than being part if the "celestial kingdom"? Second, anyone notice after the parent/teacher conferen e, Meri told Kody the Spanish teacher was "cute"? Sounds familiar! Also, when they first moved to Vegas and the teenagers had friends over to swim in meri's pool - all the girls had shirts over their swimsuits (modest is hottest?) but not so much on this darger vaca. Hmmmm.....what happened? IMO this is strictly kodys "lifestyle" but NOT his religion. He found a way to get laid whenever he wants and to populate his planet with his progeny. Notice he always calls it his "lifestyle" NEVER his "religion". When I was a practicing catholic I always called it my religion not my lifestyle. Am I missing something? Oh! And run, Janelle, RUN!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thanks! MisterSister is pretty phenomenal too!

      Meri told Kody the Spanish teacher was "cute"? Sounds familiar!

      I really think that whenever Kody gets a certain look in his eye and Meri sees it she automatically will say something to Kody like "oh she's cute". Then, like with Robyn, if Kody decides to pursue this woman Meri can take credit that it was her idea for Kody to court her.

      IMO this is strictly kodys "lifestyle" but NOT his religion

      THIS. I really believe that Kody is functioning at an adolescent level in his religion. He knows just enough to be dangerous (i.e. adding wives and having babies), but not enough to be effective/respected as a responsible father figure. I think he's playing a numbers game - He wants to have more wives than the plyg brothers in his family, more children than Joe Darger, and instead of one house in dull Lehi he wants 4 expensive houses in exciting Vegas. All without a steady J.O.B.

      He is simply clueless.

      Delete
    2. He's had 20+ years to "LEARN" how to manage. The man has never read a book about such things as how to raise children in their lives. I fully agree children should have the same rules. Why not just tell the truth about things like, we are not going to pick a house and add some bdrms because we want NEW homes! Even next door is not the same as the same home. He is not doing a good job, maybe this will open his eyes. sighs.

      Janelle is pulling our leg, she's getting the 5 bdrm. AND, they all have a den, so why not use it as an office instead of the hubby room?

      Delete
    3. Right on Cynical Jinx!!

      Delete
    4. I thought Christine was the one who said the Spanish teacher was cute. You all are still right on about Meri though.

      Delete
    5. CJ - I think the Dargers have picked up on that as well - that Kody isn't in it for religious reasons, he's in it for his own personal selfish whims. And he wants his kids to be plyg too, - not because of the celestial planet thing but because it validates his OWN lifestyle. IMO. I think the Dargers were being EXTREMELY polite but once the tables turn against the Browns, at least Joe will put in his two cents. He doesn't strike me as the type to stay polite very long, if something pisses him off, he isn't going to keep his view hidden!

      Delete
    6. Cynical Jinx said:
      "IMO this is strictly kodys "lifestyle" but NOT his religion
      THIS. I really believe that Kody is functioning at an adolescent level in his religion. He knows just enough to be dangerous (i.e. adding wives and having babies), but not enough to be effective/respected as a responsible father figure. I think he's playing a numbers game - He wants to have more wives than the plyg brothers in his family, more children than Joe Darger, and instead of one house in dull Lehi he wants 4 expensive houses in exciting Vegas. All without a steady J.O.B. He is simply clueless."

      EXACTLY. And after 20+ years of it! He's been in the church, had plenty of men to talk to, yet they ALWAYS make excuses instead of simply saying, "It's my fault, I need to spend more time studying and learning. there are certainly are role models out there." So juvenile. Remember the line Kody said about Christine being afraid of pointing fingers? With this immature family, it probably happens. One thing I taught my children is to own up to their mishaps, identify WHY things aren't working and learn a better way, and we tried to NOT condemn or judge but tell them we ALL have to learn. This group is still in high school, and bad ones at that.

      I was proud of Joe Darger and wives relating to their religion and higher good. Isn't that the POINT? Didn't see them running! I am NOT Fundamental Mormon by any means, but can respect them if they are FOLLOWING their faith.
      I think this episode was interesting, but not handled well. WHY would they send the kids out there without any teaching of how to handle it? Why?

      One must keep in mind if this is legalized, there is so much less hope for the ones in captivity to get out.


      Delete
    7. I also think there is an enormous gap between the religion of the Dargers (definitely there) and the religion of the Browns (barely there.) Religion runs all over the Darger's book and in their language. They aren't preachy about it, but little code words come through because it's very much a part of the way they see the world that they can't talk without it coming up. Janelle is the only one of the Browns that I hear the religious language from, and then only occasionally. Everyone else in the Brown family talks about polygamy from a familial/cultural point of view, or about their "religion" but doesn't use the language of fundamentalist Mormonism.

      And there is a huge difference between decriminalizing polygamy (which I think they all want) and legalizing polygamy, which I'm not sure they want. Put it this way -- if a man has three wives and each is equal under the law, that means when one of the WOMEN dies, each of the other wives is equal when it comes to legal distribution of assets according to state law. That might all right with a family like the Browns, but it is not going to be ok with most of the Mormon fundamentalists. They money is almost always controlled by the man -- it's fine that a woman's assets go to the man, but the men's assets all going to the women? Or another women's assets going to other women over the man? I don't see even Mormon fundamentalists fighting for THAT.

      It's a subtle legal difference, but a very important one. I noticed in the Darger book they were advocating for the decriminalization -- not the legalization. This might be a big reason why. (Plus, I don't think they are going to get legalization, so there is an element of pragmatism to be sure.)

      Delete
    8. Mock Jobs - i thought i was the only one who could have sworn it was Christine saying it this time, too and not Meri. thanks!

      Delete
  26. I think we have talked this issue/episode to death. Come on CJ bring on the blog about the homes/cul de sac. I just cannot wrap my head around the fact that people with that all their bankruptcy's and bad credit can somehow get approved for 2 million dollars worth of mortgage money. When the rest of the world who have 40 hr a wk jobs have problems getting a loan these days. This episode was filmed about 6 months ago right, well if they haven't started building by now, it wont happen. When I built my house 2 years ago, it took 3 days to get the loan approval and then 2-3 days finalizing the plans. But within a week of sending in the loan application, the builder was on my property setting stakes and filing permits.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Please be kind, and realize this blog is very time comsuming and free. I appreciate your thoughts, but please don't adress Cynical Jimx that way. THanks!

      Delete
    2. Yes, please let's all remember CJ and others contribute to this blog for FREE in their free time. This is not a money making venture and the contributors are volunteering. I am glad to have such an enjoyable forum like this!

      Delete
    3. Count me in too as thinking everyone that runs this blog does a wonderful job and I look forward to the new reviews, I scour the internet, etc.

      BUT (and it's a BIG but -kinda like mine!) I do realize this is not a paid job and y'all do it in your spare time, so thank you THANK YOU for what you do and giving us a home to discuss this madness!

      Delete
    4. Yes, thank you all so much for giving us a place to discuss the show. You've done a good job at ensuring the comments remain genuine, yet tactful. There are some boards I personally stay away from because anything goes and they can be even vulgar. I really appreciate this one. I waste a lot of time here, but boy oh boy, is it ever fun! :)

      Delete
  27. Watching the current episode:
    I was annoyed that Kody wanted to prove Kollene and the others wrong when they spoke against polygamy. Their experience is their own and just because you don't share it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. Grr.

    For once I wasn't mad at Robyn when she was crying while talking about having been been abused. How much she was abused, I don't know, but it seemed like she gave the rest of Brown adults a bit of a wake-up call. Just because the Browns don't consider themselves abusive to their children doesn't mean that the abuse doesn't happen.

    About the FLDS dresses: in many ways those dresses are part of the FLDS "uniform" and so of course seeing the two teenagers in those dresses is going to evoke some strong feelings in the adults. That's part of what makes uniforms so powerful: they clearly identify the group wearing them.

    I wondered a bit when Christine was worried that if she went to the person who helped polygamists, she'd be encouraged to leave. Maybe she's afraid to admit just how much she wants to leave.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yes, Chantelle, for a change, Robin's whining was appropriate, and it did shut up the Browns...did you notice the looks on their faces when she threw back at them that everyone was all for giving her ex the benefit of the doubt while she suffered in her marriage....so maybe they ought to listen with more of an open mind to the victims.

      I wondered about Christine too....especially given the blurb for next week, where she tells Kody that having a husband that only sees his kids once a week is not shat she signed up for....I think she hates to admit how unhappy she is.

      Delete
    2. I Agree about Christine being afraid to get help from anyone. She basically confirmed that she wouldn't talk to a counselor, psychiatrist or social worker for fear they would take her children away or 'try to talk her into leaving'. This seems to be a very common thing with polygamists - there is a lot of fear about 'outsiders' and how people outside their belief system want to hurt them in some way.

      Delete
    3. I agree! Robyn did seem appropriate this time. I felt bad for her. But, I was very annoyed at Christine. I really couldn't believe some of her comments. She didn't know that men could be so horrible? What? Hasn't she heard of Warren Jeffs? I really don't think she can be as dumb as she appears. Maybe it is all an act. And that comment she made about what if she went to Holding Out Help to get away from Kody. She is implying that people that have left polygamy should have stayed. I used to be on her side. But not after this episode!!!

      Delete
    4. Yeah, I thought seeing the girls dressed in the FLDS dresses was startling, the same way I'd be startled to see a child dressed as a Nazi. It is an outfit with an extremely negative connotation and it should make the parents cringe inside.

      Delete
    5. Christine's WELL AWARE that if she went whining about Kody being an absentee husband and father the majority of the time, of course the counselor would say, "that's because of polygamy!" and Christine doesn't want to hear that cause IT'S THE OBVIOUS TRUTH!!

      Delete
  28. The avenue they of course AVOIDED is WHY they must choose polygamy in their religion - to get to heaven. Without discussing the religion, discussing polygamy with this group is mute.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. On point.
      I wonder how Joe Darger would handle it?
      Kody said they didn't care what others did, what religion they had, and trying to prove this group is not abusive is just hypocritical! Wasn't the preview of Christine's unhappiness ironic right after their pathetic attempt to prove how polygamy is good?
      Sadly, the most important thing from a religious view is that the girls believe in God, however they choose to, or have the freedom to not if they choose to.

      Delete
  29. There is NO way on earth that they got those houses. I bought my house as a single, self-employed woman four years ago - when mortgage lenders were a bit more lenient. I paid $260K - probably the cost of the "hubby room" and "wet bar". Being self-employed, as the Browns are, the lender went over my finances detail by detail. I had to have a the main contractor that I work for verify my income and future work via letter. Oh - I should mention - I make SLIGHTLY MORE than the Browns - which would mean I make more than NOTHING!

    Now, trying to refinance, some lenders won't even touch me - being self-employed. I have excellent credit and am current on all my bills. So there is no conceivable way they got those homes. My thought - the builder and Mona were stringing them along to publicize their businesses.

    Does Nevada have public record access? Here in PA - you can go on the county website and search the Recorder of Deeds for deed transfers and mortgages.

    ReplyDelete
  30. I was like WOW a brand new discussion page and already 105 comments then I saw it's actually the older page. LOL! Dang I wish Blogger software included a Like Button Tool, because a lot of times I just want to LIKE a particularly astute comment instead of wasting one of our 200 comments. KWIM?

    anyway, on the House Part Deux I noted an anon person had done some research and found that Pinnacle (the Builder - I think that since they allowed their name to be shown on a couple episodes this season, it's OK to mention them by name) purchased the lots for $625k apiece two years ago (OMG after the bubble burst and real estate in LV had already started going belly up - WHAT were they thinking??) and since they were upside down in their construction loans the hypothesis of renting/leasing them to the Browns was not likely to happen...
    I still don't think that TLC will purchase, or assist in purchasing, the homes for the Browns...someone brought up that TLC helped the Duggars in re-doing their house, and provided a link to an article/blog about it - the difference there is that the Duggars had already started the project and were determined to finish it without going into debt, therefore doing it slowly and TLC helped out to accelerate the process. anyway I doubt it was all that much $$ and probably a lot of it was comp'd by the manufacturers/merchants/providers in exchange for promotional considerations. NOT $1.8 million in homes. totally different.

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  31. Could it be that they really are getting these homes and maybe Kody just had something up his sleeve the whole time? Could it be that the Browns aren't quite as transparent as we thought and that Kody isn't as dumb as we thought? If they are getting these homes, maybe the Browns really were hoarding some of that TLC money or maybe TLC is helping them out with the homes a little more than what we might think.

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    1. I am crying I'm laughing so hard at this. Noooooo I don't think Kody is not as dumb as we thought. Think he's dumber than we can even imagine. I worked for a residential builder in Atlanta. Yes he could rent the homes to satisfy paying the interest on his construction loan. I think that the Browns are renting these new homes or doing a lease purchase. Only problem is that they won't be able to finish the purchase part of it. They are not saving any money for the future so they will be out of the homes within a year; if they can even afford to stay one year.

      Delete
  32. The difference too is that the Duggars worked on their house themselves, and if you've read their book, lived without air conditioning for the first summer b/c they couldn't afford to put in the air conditioning system they wanted without going into debt (this was AFTER TLC brought in the construction crew to help finish the house *in exchange* for the Duggars allowing them to do another hour documentary on them, their new (16th) baby, etc). So obviously TLC didn't just pay for all their housing or the things in the house. *ALL* they did was bring in a construction crew to help finish the project more quickly. The Duggar dad does have a job (real estate) and so do his two oldest sons. The older girls (that are adults) are taking college classes online and one is studying to be a midwife (she's listed on the apprentice midwives page in Arkansas)

    Not in a million years would you catch the Duggars buying 4 houses or even ONE house by going into debt for 2 million (or any amount) dollars.

    The Duggars, I can respect. They have their beliefs, which I may or may not agree with all of them, and they stick to them. The Browns, on the other hand, OY. I have little to no respect for any of the adults and I feel terribly sorry for their children.

    Why watch, then, you say? I guess it's like a car crash... you just. can't. look. away. :( I should though.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. While the Duggars or their religion is not my cup of tea, i do respect them that they chose to have that many kids AND have supported them without depending on the taxpayer to do so. Unlike the Browns who have cheated they system to get taxpayer assistance.

      Delete
    2. Agree 110% about the Duggars...whether you believe in their religion or not (I happen not to), I respect them, too, and give them all the credit in the world for how they manage their finances and take care of all of their kids themselves....amazing!

      Delete
    3. I know, hard to look away when they just crash harder and more often every episode!

      Delete
  33. One of the ways it encourage others to be more tolerant of plural marriage is to actually state what the religious belief is behind the decision. I think the Dargers were a lot more clear about their reason “it’s not for this lifetime, it’s for eternity”. Frankly I would like the Browns to just say it as they believe it. I could even craft up something for them to say just off the top of my head. “We believe in plural marriage because our religion requires the practice of plural marriage in order to achieve the highest kingdom of heaven. We believe our families will be united for eternity if we follow this principle” Ok, how hard was that? I just don’t know why they don’t explain it more clearly. Apsyn and Mariah are only teenagers so I give them a pass but saying “ I just love the religion” or “I want sister wives” really doesn’t do much to explain WHY they want this lifestyle. Kody and the Moms need to get more specific. It’s their religious belief and they want to practice their religion as they see fit. So tell us what it is….tell us why you believe in plural marriage!!! I know why you practice it because I have done a lot of reading on the subject. Most people aren’t going to do that so instead you have a lot of people who just don’t understand. You don’t have to violate any sort of confidentiality by just saying that. Be honest, don’t just say “it makes us better people” and that sort of nonsense, that just doesn’t make sense given what we see on a weekly basis.

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    Replies
    1. I think the reason they don't come out and say all their religious reasons for being polygamous is because they're doing this to relate to the public. Their main reason for doing the show was to show the world that polygamists can be normal and loving. They're not here to be a religious side show and they're not trying to convince others to be like them. They probably feel that going over religious doctrine will make them look exclusive and unrelatable.

      Also, in the book they wrote, Kody talks about how he feels this is his calling, but that he doesn't believe everyone else has the same path to God. So he may simply be more liberal in his belief system than the Dargers or Duggars.

      Delete
  34. Does anyone know who Kollene's father was?
    I believe her and the other girls were very brave. Wish we could see more of their story.

    ReplyDelete
  35. I noticed that both Logan and Maddie said they did not want to be polygamists as adults. Janelle's 2 oldest... maybe they see how their mom got the shaft all these years. Yes, the love their dad, but they seem to want a quieter, happier life for themselves.

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  36. I’m neither a Mormon nor a polygamist. My belief is Protestant. These are just my thoughts, IMO, Just my ranting.
    I believe that any religion that thinks they are the only ones going to heaven, or “chosen” are sadly mistaken. Exactly Joseph Smith’s mantra. They should put Put NO MAN above God. They believe JS’s writings over the bible, no matter what they “say.” LDS believes the same planet and extra wives will happen in the afterlife.
    Given that they believe all this – and they are “sisters” why on earth could they not get along in one house? Living in separate houses is not making closeness between the siblings. Who are they kidding? IF I were going to live like this, this is what I would envision.
    A house that is a real home where all can cohabitate together. 4 kitchens is ridiculous, they probably eat out all the time anyway.
    The home should have bedrooms where children are divided by age and gender; regardless of who is their mom. This would be practical and true siblings. It’s ridiculous to buy 4 over expensive homes. NO ONE in their right mind will want to buy the home later, all 4 just alike! No yard. No church family. So why live there? TLC has given them the freedom to live where they want. They are now supposedly going on county land. Build a home or buy one and adjust.
    It appears that the homes are more important than the kids or the religion.
    Now Kody is their priest head? How sad is that? Their own church doesn’t want them anymore. Catch a clue!
    Sending Maddie out there to defend something she doesn’t want to do, and Logan, is almost cruel.
    What do you all think? Would you want to live together to the betterment of the family?

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    1. i agree that sending out the kids that don't want to practice polygamy themselves but to have to defend their parents is definitely emotionally cruel to them. they love their parents and are still dependent on them for food and housing , so to force them into that position publicly is wrong. I fault their parents for condoning/encouraging them to do that as much, if not more, as i fault TLC for doing it.

      Delete
    2. I agree. They spout the polygamist lifestyle, yet are really all just striving for their own place, with their own independence, and a husband they can boss around when it's their night. What's so great about it. Yeah, it really softens my opinion of polygamy said no one ever.

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    3. "It appears that the homes are more important than the kids or the religion."

      Yes, indeed..if anything has become crystal clear, it is this !!

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    4. I too agree with the home aspect and the children being sent out. good read!
      IF our family were to go into their sect, I would want to live together, harmonious and in one home so I could car for all the children, and WORK together. No silly wetbar business. Vanity, and greed.

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    5. I never thought about it, but it was a great point that sending 2 Brown children who don't want to live polygamy was odd. Why not send some that are in favor of putting it into practice in their own lives? Unless Maddie and Logan wanted to be the ones to go...

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    6. Yep, excellent point about who was sent to "defend" polygamy. Firstly, the kids shouldn't have been the ones filmed doing the defending. While it's true, they will have to face critics of their family's choices, it was the parents who signed up for this. Let them deal with the critics and the compounded drama of adding cameras. Also, if they were gonna send any teens, they should've made sure Mariah was on this trip since she is clearly intending to practice polygamy.

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    7. Mariah has a short fuse and isn't able to handle criticism like Aspyn did. She would have had a meltdown about it and I'm sure Meri and Kody didn't allow her to go. Or she probably didn't want to go herself anyway and be around a bunch of kids who not only weren't for polygamy but were publicly against it.

      But i agree that it was hard on the Brown teens in the position they were put in defending their parents and all on national TV. That was wrong and I feel bad that it made Maddie cry and obviously both Logan and Aspyn were definitely out of their comfort zone and in over their heads in dealing w/those teens abuse from their polygamous families.

      It's funny tho how they all really have more in common with them than they realize as the Brown kids get their own share of emotional abuse from the lifestyle but just aren't able to voice it yet even if they do realize it.

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    8. Musings from a twinDecember 10, 2012 at 8:49 PM

      Can I just say I LOVE Maddie? She seems to have such a big heart, and you can tell she takes the time to question and process everything she experiences. I thought the speech she made about seeing polygamy through the perspective of kids who have been emotionally scarred by it was very profound, the way she compared it to her own experiences. I think she's very mature and has the confidence to go far in life.

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  37. Did you see what was on one polygamist's mom's headboard? Keep Sweet! Isn't that what Meri told Christine when she was having problems with Kodi? That is crazy. How can anyone think polygamy is ok. You're supposed to swallow your feelings, keep sweet and hope that it goes away? I'll happily stay a monogamist who's been married for 28 years to my best friend. And I don't have to share him!

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    1. Yes, if you've read any books or listened to any interviews w/plyg women escapees - they all are taught that saying from birth. no whining, no complaining, no arguing. if you do, you're told to stop it and shut up w/the "keep sweet" plyg mantra. so emotionally unhealthy. "keep sweet" vs. "be kind" is a huge difference in meaning.

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    2. The men's headboards should say "Keep it clean!

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  38. I just cannot get over how over the top Meri's selfishness just grows & grows with each new episode. There is so much me, me, me in this family, that even if someone gave them 5 million dollars, they would figure out a way to screw it all up. Even when Meri is giving a faux apology, it's still centered around her own inadequacies and how it's really okay that she's the way she is because, after all, you know, I'm Meri. Tired of the baby thing. I think she milks every single thing that doesn't go the way Meri wants to the fullest. In Season 1, I had a suspicion this would unfold this way because Meri seemed to almost delight in using her jealousy of Robin as a trick card to be used whenever it suits Meri. Hey Meri, where did your feeling of entitlement come from? sheesh enough ...

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    1. I totally agree......Meri was my favorite first season, now she is like nails on a chalk board. I have never met anyone that felt so entitled in my life, she is worse than my 4yr old daughter who is spoiled! So sad when a 4yr old can take being told no better than Meri!

      Off the subject....I wish there was a LIKE button next to posts....So many of you make such great observations and points that I want to acknowledge them all but do not have enough time in the day to comment on all of them.

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  39. As it is now, according to next week's teaser, Kody has been lax in seeing Christine's children (and likely Janelle's kids too)....
    And these two wives live on the same street, don't they.

    All he has to do is either walk up the street or drive for 1 minute to make the rounds of going to at least those two homes...with the other two rentals close by. Yet..he is too busy ! Useless Jerk !!!

    And it is unlikely that he will do any better once they all move to their McMansion compound.
    Although, each McMansion DOES has 2 back patios, so perhaps he can claim one at each house for his outdoor office (throne)....and the kids can then go to him.

    What a waste he is as a father !!

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    1. Kody takes full advantage of the man's advantages of polygamy. If he doesn't want to stay at one of the wives houses, he can say/do whatever he thinks is best as the lone priesthood leader of the pack. lol I imagine he has to make sure he has to give Meri and Robyn equal time but he KNOWS he doesn't to Christine or Janelle. Janelle couldn't care less and he couldn't care less if Christine whines about it. As far as their kids - well, he's not really into any of his kid's lives anyway. Except for Mariah and Solomon. and of course, he's definitely seeing them on a regular basis at the two homes he spends his time at.

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    2. I'm guessing in the beginning it will be very novel for Kody to walk from house to house to say goodnight (not good morning) to all of his kids...but as the weeks pass by, he will be parking his butt in a chair at one of the homes (hmmmm which one) and tell the kids "If you want to see me...come to me"

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    3. I was wondering, since Christine is "done," having kids, if that means he spends less time with her...if they are against conventional birth control, they may just be abstaining completely. So he would spend many of her nights away from her. Too much? You think?

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  40. I believe that they got the houses... with the abysmal terms that were first offered. Something like 40% down, high interest only loan, 10 year balloon etc. If I were the builder I would finance them with those terms. Their credit is so poor that the builder is probably getting asking price whereas they are losing money on the other homes in the subdivsion. With a 40% down payment, the homes are no longer upside down in terms of worth. The lots have been sitting there for 2 years with little to no interest or movement. The builder knows that there is no way that the Brown crew is going to be able to afford this after the TLC truck pulls away but can hope that in that time the market improves in the area and the homes will have a "celebrity" factor. In the mean time they have 40% of the value in hand and can keep collecting those interest payments.

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  41. Personally I get more enjoyment reading this blog
    than watching the epi - especially last nite. Ended up switching at half hour. Boring.
    While it was probably informative to some, thought it a complete waste of time - maybe we're looking for I Love Lucy - don't know.
    Sad the LV venture wasn't researched prior to moving. Believe a normal person would pay off the Utah home first before venturing into troubled waters. These houses are insane. Sounds like the contractor is tettering on bankruptcy himself and maybe everyone will get a good deal out of it. $600.000 for a lot must be gold in them sand pebbles.

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  42. I notice there's a big discussion about clothing and garments earlier in this thread, and the difference between the way the Dargers and Browns dress. Most polygamist groups wear the old style long sleeved, long legged undergarments, and AUB is no exception. There are a few women in AUB who make them and sell them to others, while many women make their own. The Dargers are independent polygamists who don't wear the garments, and can therefore wear anything they want. Like many in AUB the Browns don't wear their garments on the beach, and I suspect roll them up so they can wear capri and three quarter sleeves etc. at other times.

    As for the Dargers claimiing to be "orthodox" Mormons, this just shows how canny they are. They know perfectly well that the term "fundamentalist" has negative connotations and want to polish their image and claim uniqueness, simply by attempting to change the terminology. They're still fundamentalists like the rest.

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  43. Did anyone catch it last night when the kids were talking in Utah and Maddie said that she and Logan were not planning on being polygamous when they got married but that Apsyn was. Logan has always tried to be vague (for the sake of his family) but I think we got our answer last night, or at least confirmation of what we suspected. I wonder how this reflects upon the mother of the children. For instance, will Christine get bonus points because Aspyn wants to life the polygamist lifestyle? And will Janelle be considered a ‘bad mother’ since her kids are not choosing The Principle? I would imagine that such things are considered the mother’s responsibility and if the kids don’t see polygamy as a blessing then it’s the mother’s fault. In this situation though I think we can all agree it’s Meri’s fault due to the way she abused Janelle. So Meri, you got your wet bar (in theory for now) but you turned at least two kids against your faith. Worth it?

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    1. I think Janelle would be the only one considered a "good mother" in this band of misfits in the outside worlds eyes...

      Janelle is the only one that I think is somewhat normal in this family, she's got brains, held a job for a very long time before they moved to LV, (I think she supported all of them financially), and has skills that none of the rest of them seem to have.

      But I don't think she is long for this world that Kody has created, it looks like she has checked out emotionally and is planning for a future for herself and her kids, hence the smaller house, without the rest of these wahoos....

      BTW, this is my first time posting here, but have been reading this blog for a while now, love it!

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    2. I think Jenelle's kids have not seen the "benefits" of being in a plural family (or being in a plural marriage) and that is why the two of them (so far) have chosen not to be part of that "lifestyle". All they see is drama and sadness...who knows maybe Jenelle weeps in her room and the kids hear it.

      I'm sure they see the benefits of being a Polygamist Family on TV...but I think they realize that won't be happening in their life and know what a struggle it will be.

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    3. Yes, Janelle seems to be the most logical mom, but I would venture to say Christine is a very loving one, however dufus. Meri has taught some very bad skills, and it's showing.

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    4. I think Jannelle's crowning moment would be if Meri and Robyn lost their homes, and she (Janelle) had enough money to hang onto hers.

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    5. I think Logan changes his answer to fit the views of the questioner. I doubt he is thinking of having ANY wives right now, let alone one, but is keeping his options open. As for Janelle being penalized for raising kids that choose not to follow the religion, well, I know in traditional LDS homes, the father is the spiritual head and is the one most responsible for leading the rest of the family on the path of righteousness. He would have only himself to blame if the kids don't follow his religion. In the case of Aspyn, I think that she is a lot like her mother and seeks Kody's and the other adults approval at all costs. She wants to appear like a good little girl and also like her mother, is not the most disciplined, brainy or ambitious. I don't mean to criticize her. I think she is sweet and cute, but the fact that she skips classes and that blank look on her face when Kolene quizzed her spoke volumes to me.

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    6. Janelle honestly strikes me as being more happy had she just been able to be married to a career sans kids. i think she had kids - especially that many - only because of her religion's teachings. I'm not saying she doesn't love all the ones she's got but i just think if she could do it all over again knowing what she knows now . . . when she became disenchanted w/her first marriage and the mainstream mormon church, she'd have taken a whole different route now than the one she ultimately took.

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  44. Maybe this has been discussed before and if so I'm sorry. If polygamy is the gate way to the celestial kingdom, and Kody gets to "call each wife up to Heaven", does he also get to "call" the children? Maybe they keep saying the kids have the choice to live polygamy because regardless if they do or not Kody can bring them to his planet and they can all be together. It would explain why they are so nonchalant about wanting their kids to follow the teachings of their religion. Anybody know for sure? I love this blog!

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    1. I am always confused about this. Wouldn't the girls go to their husband's planet and the boys have their own? Makes no sense!

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    2. I don't understand the whole planet concept either. I tried wrapping my brain around how that would work as far as their 'earthly' children go. Hopefully, someone on here can expand on that.

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    3. once you start getting into the convoluted mess of it all - confusing hilarity starts to ensue. but most mormons just say - well, God will work all that out in the next life. ;')

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  45. I really like Maddie but her comment about her parents being "good people" really bugs me. The Browns seem very nice but good people do not commit welfare fraud or declare bankruptcy while collecting a huge paycheck. Good people don't abuse the system as this family has continually done. This bleeding the beast costs you and I money. Do they tithe or pay taxes on their money? I am so tired of this group. I'm not watching anymore. Please petition TLC to cancel this show. This house buying story line is an insult to me. How can they buy 4 $500,000 houses? Outrageous. And for a show to be called Siste Wives..... All we deal with is Kody. Enough already

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    1. Most kids stick up for their parents no matter what they've done. It's called family loyalty. It's like you can say anything you want about your family, but when someone else something it's infuriating. The kids may not know or have paid attention to their parents finances (welfare fraud)

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    2. I think Maddie was mostly referring to their parents not abusing them, not talking about finances. I think that they do come from a "good" home as far as not being beaten or verbally abused. It's sad that they can't see their dad every day. I wonder if Kody working for the new green shake company has had him travel for work and that has contributed to him not being at home much. I guess if Kody is away for his specific days with Christine then she just misses out? That seems like a crappy schedule to me.

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    3. I would bet that the Brown's don't think they have committed welfare fraud. I am not even sure they know what it is. That is the only conclusion I can come to since they said they haven't done it and we all know that they did. Maybe in their minds, since they are not legally married to Kody, it is perfectly legal to collect welfare as a single parent. Who knows. It seems like polygamy is used in their favor only when it benefits them.

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  46. I think kody is so pity and stupid. If he spent themmajority of his time at Janelle s or Christine's house whom live right by each other he would be spending his time near 90% of his kids. What the check is wrong with these people.

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  47. I am going to touch on a few different area's of discussion here. Was it a bad thing to send the kids on that trip? No I personally think it made them re evaluate their feelings on the matter and take it to heart. Rather than just the superficial teenage rebellion reaction.

    TLC is most definately going to have a hand in them getting those house's. Be it that they rent or rent to own or something. TLC is smart enough to know they can only string this "housing" situation along so far before it has reached the families breaking point. They ARE at their breaking point for many reasons. So the hollywood magic will happen to insure another season from this family.

    I have seen several documentaries and interviews of Polig family's over the years. Many can be found on Youtube. In everyone one of them there is obvious jealiousy and personality conflick's between the wives. One even showing how a young wife leaves to stay a few weeks with her parents because of the bitterness between all the wives. Again over a "kitchen" area. I personally do not think any of the polig families ever live in harmony. As long as the husband has what he wants and the inner conflict is kept at a quiet roar beyond his earshot, he really does not care how his harem feels about one another.

    I am utterly amazed that they all seem so surprized that their "family" and it's "values" are disentigrating now that they have moved. Part of what keeps this polig belief system in tact and going strong is the peer pressure by the community they surround themselves with. Of all the places to move they choose Las Vegas? Nicknames "Sin City" and they are worried now? Even the most generic of families moving there would see drastic changes in their children's attitudes and outlook on life! Kody's arrogance that they were so good and strong in those beliefs and values that they could withstand Vegas influence's. is astounding. Another testament to the bubble these people have lived in all their lives. The "reality show curse" is most definately going to have it's way with this family as well. When this show is over with, this family will separate slowly but surely.

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  48. Has anyone heard about who will need the extra room in their house to conduct "church" services???

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    1. I have been wondering that myself. During all this 'drama' of five bedrooms and wetbars, not one peep was shown about "hey, we can have our lifestyle services here!" Yes, it could have been not shown due to editing, but I'm thinking it was never brought up as its not their religion any longer, its their 'lifestyle' I did not watch this last episiode, I am officially done with these ass clowns. Thankfully, I have CJ's awesome reviews to enjoy.

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  49. I have a problem with Maddie saying that it's not the lifestyle that is the problem but the leaders and priest holders. Not Maddie, of course, but that's obviously what she has been taught. If they have such a problem with their leaders, perhaps they should change religions? And, get over the lifestyle. For them it's a religious must.

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  50. TLC is showing clips of next weeks show and they show them breaking ground. Not sure if they are breaking ground on the four lots or not. I just wish that we knew for sure if they actually got the homes or not. This story line has been beaten to death. The show is so boring now. I am tired of the same old drama and the tears. Kody is trying his best to create drama in order to keep his family relevant. There is much more to this home buying situation than meets the eye. A single woman without a stable job or income would not qualify for a mortgage of this size. I want to see their debt to income ratio. They just need to come clean with the truth. Their fans on their Facebook page think Kody is the worlds best father. Sick. Their fans want them to have these homes because they deserve them. I want to know what in the hell they have done to deserve 4 homes clearly out of their budget. I was amazed at the number of new sponsors the show had. I did email a few of them letting them know that I will boycott their products if they continue to support polygamy. I know that this is a train wreck waiting to happen. I read this blog and only portions of the show. IMHO this show is scripted and rather boring to watch. They keep showing the same thing over and over again. They must think we are so easy to fool. I also think that they read this blog. After all, this blog has more people talking about them than their own fan pages.

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    1. You know even tho i always tivo it and watch it later- ff'ing through commercials, i remember thinking the same thing about there's definitely more commercials worked in now.

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  51. Musings from a twinDecember 10, 2012 at 8:08 PM

    New time posting, I love this blog, it makes the show itself 3 times as interesting! Honestly, seeing the Dargers and the whole twin thing really hit home for me. I am also a twin and have had some experience with having my twin sister date my 1st love while we were "on a break" (Jerk), and let me tell you, from the body language, it seems to me Vicki does harbor a lot or resentment that she keeps hidden for the sake of her kids. Also makes a lot of sense that Vicki has aged so much more than Val since Val joined the family, compare before and after pictures of Vicki and there is a drastic difference. Remember when they were at the adults only + Super Sol dinner, and someone said in regard to kitchen decoration something along the lines of "so that's it, there's no problems," and Vicki's eyes get really wide and her lips got tense and she said "well, as far as the kitchen goes." Something tells me all is not perfect in DargerLand. Some people have been commenting that Alina is the odd one out, I disagree, I think Vicki is. Val is the fresh meat/youngest looking, Alina is the most outspoken and has 1st wife status, Vicki is the odd ball, I think. If you watch again you'll notice whenever he gives Val affection, Vicki glances over, like "what about me" and Joe picks up on this and puts his arm around her. When you're a twin all types of comparisons arise. (who's the creative one? who's the evil one? who's the pretty one? Hell, we've all been doing this on this blog, haven't we?) In my case, these comparisons were exacerbated when my sister dated my boyfriend, and I suspect this was the case for the Darger twins. For me, I felt my boyfriend was dating a better version of me. I think Vicki may feel the same way, Val looks younger, and she has that whole damsel-in-distress quality that guys love from her 1st marriage. Also, Val and Joe knew each other for 10 years (as Vicki's husband) and there was "all or a sudden" a spark between them? No little flirtation or looks prior to that, it just happened all or a sudden, huh? Bullcrap!!!

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  52. Hi Sewcrafty, my question to Kody's fans would be: "Since when is home financing based on what one deserves?" I might think that I "deserve" to own the Taj Mahal, but Chase Bank bases my loan maximum on what I earn, and by what credit behavior I've exhibited in the past. Therefore, the Taj Mahal will not be my residence. Why should the Browns be held to a different standard?

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  53. I have talked to several Mormons about the boys getting their own planet and the girls being called to their husband's and none of them can explain it and some will admit they have never even thought about it.

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  54. I just checked the ratings and for Sunday show at 9pm they had 2.4 million and 1.0 for the 11pm show. So many people ask where are they getting the money from. IMO they are getting it from TLC. Did some googling and my guess they are getting min. 25k per show. I would guess more than that since its doing good in ratings as well as its their 5th season. I would guess they each are making 25k a show, even Logan now as he's an adult. I think thats why he went to collage so close. As far as the kids go I would bet they are getting paid something to sit on the couch. It probably goes in to a trust. Both the Gosselins and Duggars(19 kids) have money in trust for the kids from the show. As well all the extra bonuses such as: vacations, gas. food, cleaners, babysitters and clothing allowances etc. If you add it all up they are on a gravey train right now. Why rent and have to get permisson from landlords and so on when you can buy and get tlc to pay for using the space, updating lighting and so on. I dont think for the first season they were paid what they make now as it was new and the waters had to be tested. Its one of TLC's highest watched shows and the Browns get to reap the rewards.

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  55. This has to do with the most recent episode. Before last night, I had never heard of the Kingston Clan/Group of polygamy, so I googled. And what I found just turned my stomach.

    I understand that by this point, the FLDS and other groups are somewhat entering the realm of cousins marrying cousins (because the lack of 'new' blood); but to find out that the Kingston Clan actively practices incest (brothers marrying sisters, uncles to nieces, etc) made me go a little green in the face (and made me question, who is the greater evil... the founder of this group or Warren Jeffs or are they equal).

    Having said that... I commend Kollene for escaping.

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