COLORADO
CITY, Ariz. (AP) - Arizona is placing foster children in the polygamist
enclave of Colorado City near the Utah border and that's raising
concerns about their future and Arizona Child Protective Services'
judgment in finding homes for abused and neglected kids.
Mohave County Supervisor Buster Johnson has identified one foster parent as a former member of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints whose family was "reassigned" some years ago by church leader Warren Jeffs.
Johnson notified Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer this week and asked Attorney General Tom Horne for help to bring the child back to Lake Havasu City, where the child's mother still lives. Please read the rest at the Daily Courier
http://www.dcourier.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&SubSectionID=1&ArticleID=114909Mohave County Supervisor Buster Johnson has identified one foster parent as a former member of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints whose family was "reassigned" some years ago by church leader Warren Jeffs.
Johnson notified Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer this week and asked Attorney General Tom Horne for help to bring the child back to Lake Havasu City, where the child's mother still lives. Please read the rest at the Daily Courier
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteMy mistake Magic Undies, please comment again.
DeleteSure thing, Mister Sister! My question is, do the children in question have some link, however tenuous, to the families with which they are being placed? The reason I suspect this could be the case is that CPS actively asks relatives, such as aunts, to take children who are removed from their biological parents. In fact, sometimes CPS downright pressures relatives. I am neither defending or decrying this practice, just wondering if that is what we're missing.
DeleteNope. These children have no relationship to Colorado City or polygamy. As a matter of fact, one of the complaints of their CASA reps is that they are being so far removed from the family where they are from, visitation is almost impossible.
DeleteThanks for shining a light on that. Knowing they have no concept of FLDS religion then being put into a town of it, well, sounds horrible. Far different than where I come from!
DeleteI pray that those kids aren't subjected to more abuse, as they have already suffered enough.
ReplyDeleteCara- In order to be published, comments need to not "attack" or judge other posters. Rephrase and I will post it.
ReplyDeleteLove this comment, can't judge or attack other members but can attack and judge the sister wives as much as possible! Bet you dont post this
DeleteDear ANONYMOUS 8:54,
DeleteYou must be new here! We have gone over and over and over this point. Sister Wives have put themselves in the public arena with a book, TV Show, lawsuits. Comments have not.
We like a place where folks can have either opinion, pro or con, and be able to speak it freely.
Attacking another commenter will not make your point, positive or negative about your own view.
"Agree to Disagree" is our motto.
*Sigh* How many times will we need to rehash common courtesy on a blog?
Please see "How to Post"
Not even sure how to respond. On the surface this is nuts, but as Magic pointed out there maybe more to the story.
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry, but this is disgusting. Warren Jeffs is a disgusting man who is not only a pervert in the truest sense of the word, but he is wicked and abusive.
ReplyDeleteI may be wrong, but I truely do think that most people on this earth are doing the best they can and really are trying to make good choices. I'm sure that there are many good people who are under Warren Jeffs' thumb who honestly believe they are living the way God would want them to.
With that being said, I don't know how CPS can knowingly place children in polygamous homes. The secrecy, the fact that (sometimes) minors are expected to drop out of school and work for no wage, the other alleged abuse...what are they thinking??? With foster children being yet one more way to collect $$$ from the government/bleed the beast - it boggles the mind! On top of all of that, knowing the leader, the one person whom controls the lives and minds of the residents of Colorado City, is in prison convicted of felony abuses of minor children - again, I'm just amazed!
I just don't see the state of AZ being so short on homes that they have to place foster children with people who built twin cities so they can disregard the law of the land - polygamy is STILL illegal.
Read the other side of the story here...
Deletehttp://www.kpho.com/story/20590806/official-fears-for-foster-kids-in-polygamist-town?utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed
I agree, both sides of the story have not been heard, and myself am not one way or the other, yet. Here's another article.
Deletehttp://tripleap.blogspot.com/
Interesting...but if I were the state, I'd be erring on the side of caution.
DeleteWhile I'm sure there are some non-FLDS people living there, I have a hard time believing that there are 'thousands' of people living in Colorado City who are not FLDS, since the 2006 census estimates there are approximately 4,607 people living there (according to Wikipedia).
I was always taught to avoid the appearance of evil, which means that even if your motives and actions are pure and innocent, think of how it would look to an outsider without knowing any backstory, and you'll never have to defend yourself against rumors or accusations.
I hope this man's motives are as pure as what he says, but the state has a duty to protect children from going from one bad situation into another.
Colorado City is a weird place. I drove through there when I was first married to my 1st husband, and we stopped to get some asprin. It was eerie and we got a very strange vibe. We were stared at like we were freaks...we were definitely not welcome.
http://tripleap.blogspot.com/
DeleteURGENT ACTION NEEDED
Dear friends and supporters of the AAAP's efforts to shine the light on the abuses inherent in the practice of polygamy, both here and around the globe, we need your help!
Late last week, Mohave County Supervisor Buster Johnson released a press release with Flora Jessop, American Polygamy Survivor and founder and executive director of the Child Protection Project. This press release revealed that a Mohave County judge, in tandem with Arizona CPS has sent a boy from Lake Havasu City, Arizona to be fostered, and possibly adopted by a single man, formerly a member of the FLDS, in Colorado City, AZ.
For this judge or CPS to send a child into such a community, one under investigation and indictment of the U.S. Department of Justice, and with a long history of abuse and neglect of children is, we believe, unconscionable. If after reading the letter below, you agree that Colorado City is not a place the government should be sending any child, please ACT!
Please consider adding your endorsement to a letter we are sending to this judge. Please share this appeal with your friends by email or on your social networking sites, Facebook, Twitter, My Space, Tumbler, whatever you use.
If you are against FLDS being foster parents, I urge you to sign this petition - your privacy will be kept. Please read the letter at the site for more info.
I think it's very dangerous territory to say this man should not foster because he was once FLDS. So was Flora Jessop. She is one to judge, really! That makes no sense that she would be so prejudiced against someone that is in her own shoes!
DeleteMmmmm...maybe she can judge because she know what really goes on there? She is an activist against the FLDS. Flora Jessop was on the receiving end of abuses brought on by a polygamous marriage in a polygamous culture. Those in power were polygamous men. Presumably, this man was a polygamous man (he has 20 kids, after all).
DeleteI don't think the fact that he was once part of the FLDS that is the biggest issue. This man continues to live in Colorado City and be subjected to the FLDS perversions of justice and everything else, but he says he's not one of them. He continues to stay in the polygamous environment. Maybe he's showing the FLDS leaders that he's taking his punishment, repenting of whatever infraction caused his family to be reasigned, and hoping his family will be returned - so he can then rejoin the FLDs...I don't know. From the outside, he looks as of he is more interested in gaining custody of foster children from CPS than he is in getting his own 20 children back, but that's from the outside.
I hope to God that he is an upstanding man who has pure intentions of giving his adopted and foster children a shot at having a healthy, productive life. I hope he wants nothing more than to give them some stability and a loving home. There are just so many unanswered questions that we'll never have the answers to.
Here is what I wrote to someone who wrote me all in a dither because a couple of apostates who live in CC poo pood the letter: Of course there are apostates in the town. Many of them are apostates, not from any conscious choice of their own, but like Dan Wayman, were excommunicated. Just because someone is no longer part of the FLDS in good standing does not make them suddenly enlightened to a normal life or world view. Many of them go on living "the principle," and are simply waiting for the day a new prophet takes his place and makes things more "normal" for them again. Exactly how cheap would the housing in this community have to be before you think someone "normal" would consider it a good safe community for their children? The day Warren Jeffs ordered every dog and cat in the town to be rounded up and slaughtered in a pit, what effect do you think that would have on a child from "the real world"? Or how about all the times the community has gathered in a field for "the lifting?" Are these normal things that you wouldn't consider worrying for your child to see?
DeleteThese people say "not 100%" and that they could be good foster or adoptive parents, and yes, Mohave County is now patrolling, [1 car!] but who is the city mayor? Who is on the city council? Who controls the utilities? Apostates? No! They have no control over that community. Are they allowed to shop in the town stores? No. Are they welcome to use the parks or cemetery? No.
Everyone wants to be thought of as "normal" and "good." Most people, no matter who they are, if you ask them if they think they are "a good person," will respond "yes." Al Capone did when asked the question. I understand being hurt that the outside world doesn't consider you "normal," but the plain truth is, they're not.
#3 is "hazy-no one knows for sure"? Seriously? Your town has a cemetery comprised of 50% bodies of children and no other city in America has anything even close, and your answer to the concern for this and for children in the community is a pathetic "hazy, no one knows for sure"? What do they not know? That it's a fact [I've been there myself to confirm it] or why?
My guess is that no more than 10% of the residents there are not practicing polygamy. If it were ever 40% they would have some say and some control of the law enforcement, public officials and utilities. But you and I both know, that's just not true.
Not knowing why there are so many dead children in your town, which is controlled by a convicted child predator from his prison cell a thousand miles away, means you plain just don't care.
This is not a safe place for already abused and neglected children.
It is not an FLDS home. For all I know the man has no religion at all. My problem comes with sending children from the outside world, a world where they have already experienced neglect or abuse, into a town that is controlled by a convicted sexual predator from his prison cell a thousand miles away. How do you think a child like this might react if he saw the town cops gathering up every dog in town and taking them to a slaughter pit to kill? or the site of the entire town gathering in a field waiting to be "lifted up"? Or how about being chased out of the town's park or off the street for wearing short sleeves or shorts? But you know what? I bet Mr. Waymen wouldn't even allow them to go outside dressed like that anyway.
DeleteWow. EXCELLENT.
DeleteBoots said above: "Just because someone is no longer part of the FLDS in good standing does not make them suddenly enlightened to a normal life or world view. Many of them go on living "the principle," and are simply waiting for the day a new prophet takes his place and makes things more "normal" for them again. Exactly how cheap would the housing in this community have to be before you think someone "normal" would consider it a good safe community for their children? The day Warren Jeffs ordered every dog and cat in the town to be rounded up and slaughtered in a pit, what effect do you think that would have on a child from "the real world"?
DeleteNever thought about it like that before. This is the town of animal slaughter. What could they do to innocent children? And this man was of the faith, how do we know he is not now?
I could see the FLDS using the foster system as a way to get young girls into their system. Scary. Sad. you have brought up many points i didn't know. Thank you for your information.
I'm very well aware of who Flora Jessop is. I've followed her for years and I do agree with her poor treatment of those girls who return to the FLDS, by her writing "runaways" in giant red letters on their photos, on her own web site You'd think of all people she would be more understanding. And what she has been through.
DeleteIts dangerous territory to say you can or should not be foster parents because you were FLDS or because you live in Short Creek/CO City.
If he meets the requirements nothing can be done. Nothing should be done.
I'm well aware that Short Creek/CO City is such a mess, the government needs to take over. They have bigger fish to fry so to speak. And their focussing on taking away this mans options bc he was once FLDS. Kind of irnoic considering that almost nobody in that city is able to exercise any of their American rights. No property rights. No right to even decide whom you marry. No right to keep your wife. No right to have certain toys(bikes were once ordered thrown away) or certain pets(cats ok, dogs were killed) Only 15 men allowed to father children.
To deny one of their ability to become a foster parent simply bc they were once FLDS is bad business. Foster care applications should be based upon *gasp* each individuals ability to foster.
Thank you Lisa for saying exactly what I been thinking. So much prejudice talk that causes injury to a man's reputation based on where he has lived apparently all of his life. Seems like this guy is being jerked around by not only his former religion, but by people who are willing to take away his right to be foster parent based on what others have done that he didn't have anything to do with.
DeleteI don't think it's worth the gamble when we're talking about the lives of innocent children. I, personally, couldn't care less about this guy's reputation if it means keeping children out of a potentially bad situation... as well as keeping more taxpayer's dollars potentially out of yet another fraudulent situation.
DeleteYou're welcome, Anon 12:04.
DeleteWhether or not this man is a good candidate for being a foster parent is what we should be concerned about. Not his former religion. That's so ignorant to assume that this man is a danger to be around children simply because he was FLDS. Now, I am not advocating him as a foster parent. I have no idea if he qualifies. However, the screening tools should not include such discriminating factors such as: disability, religion or race.
If the government bans foster care children from entering Colorado City, then the government is acknowledging that there is an inherent risk in that location for *all children. They would then be responsible to protect the children that live within that community. They can't ban foster care applications from that area (acknowledging a risk) and then do nothing for the children who already live there. So if the government decides to ban all former FLDS and anyone currently living in CO City as foster parents, then they've painted themselves into a corner and they must then take action and protect the kids who are already there. Failure to do so could leave them legally responsible.
I doubt they government is going to discriminate against potential foster care parents who are former members of any religion. Doing so is costly as they would be sued. It's unethical. Like any other kind of application, the decision should be based on the individuals abilities and the specific facts of each case. People have the right to be treated
fairly.
(I also meant to say that I do *not support Flora's treatment of two former FLDS members.)
Lisa - I don't think that being former FLDS is enough to keep him from fostering children. I also don't think the fact that he doesn't have any of his own children is reason enough. Nor do I think the fact that he lives in Colorado City is a good enough reason to keep foster chidren away from him.
DeleteIt is the fact that all of these are FACTS and they are combined to make a coctail of uncomfortability and uncertainty.
This is not based on discrimination, it is based on due diligence for the state for the children who have been taken out of their own homes for whatever reason and making certain (or as certain as they can) that these children have some stability.
By the way, there IS "an inherent risk in that location for all children", whether the government is willing to acknowledge it or not. Also a fact.
Foster agencies do not have the luxury of discriminating against single adults, people who do not have children or based upon the location. They have a hard enough time finding homes for foster children. Once they start adding new requirements, they will only make it harder to find homes. If foster care kids are stopped from going to any homes within CO City, then I sure hope the government cares about the children already living there, as much as they do the foster children, and actually DO something to protect them.
DeleteI think it's appalling and disgusting that this is happening. There is no excuse for the government to send innocent children into that dangerous *e*l hole.
DeleteI believe there is much more to this story we do not know. It sounds very dangerous. Why would they put foster children in this predicament, esp. with the facts and figures surrounding child deaths in that area? If the FLDS could get a link on foster care- they would grab it, sadly for many unorthodox and immoral reasons. Money, new prospects of wives, child labor. sigh.
ReplyDeleteJust occurred to me...Warren Jeffs looks like he could be related to Voldemort.
ReplyDeleteYep - ugly on the inside and on the outside. I'd love to Avada Kadavra his butt!
DeleteWhy can't these kids be sent to other areas? Is it because people aren't willing to take them in? How do these plg families qualify. It is my understanding that a foster family must be checked out.
ReplyDeleteWhen states are desperate, they will send the kids to anyone who will take them. We knew some kids that came from a bad home and had been in and out of foster care multiple times. I had given the oldest daughter my phone number and told her if she ever needed anything to call and I would be there for her. I hadn't seen the kids in over a year when I got a call from CPS that they were being removed from a foster family they were with due to abuse and the oldest daughter was insisting on living with me. I agreed to take the older two but did not have room for the baby. My neighbor volunteered to take the baby. CPS was at our homes within the hour with all the kids. Everything worked out in our case but it easily could have been bad. We were not related, we were not close family friends, we were not registered foster parents and my neighbor had only the met the kids 2 or 3 times prior to this. When CPS dropped them off, they didn't look around our homes, wait to meet our husbands or ask us any questions other then were we sure we wanted to take them in. As my neighbor put it, "We could have had a dungeon down the hall for all they knew." Like I said, in our case it worked out fine, my neighbor adopted the oldest daughter and the baby and the middle son was reunited with his father who had been looking for him for years. CPS never bothered to let him know his son was in foster care. It took our neighbor 6 years to adopt the kids as they didn't want to terminate parental rights even though during SUPERVISED visits a child was hit by a car, a child was bitten by a dog, a child had to be resuscitated after almost drowning and on one visit all the children and the social worker had to go to the ER after becoming violently ill from being exposed to meth fumes. All of this is basically to say that while I wholeheartedly agree that no one in the FLDS should be a foster parent, I cannot say I am surprised. Our CPS system needs a complete overhaul.
DeleteHi That's MY Wetbar!: I've heard similar stories about CPS in regards to how quickly they move to get kids into new foster homes, and don't necessarily screen those homes as well as they could. I have an acquaintance, "Michelle", who got a call from them at two in the morning about her step-grandchildren. They were removing the kids from her adult step-daughter's home, and gave Michelle 30 minutes to come over to pick up the kids, or else the children would go into "the system." She had to immediately get in the car and race over to get the kids. At two in the morning! Michelle has had the kids for three years--the step-daughter is an addict who won't get help--and CPS has never inspected her home.
DeleteI too hate seeing children go to FLDS homes, but doubt it will be changed by a petition. FLDS is not the only religion backing polygamy. Other other groups gain political power as they grow and I strongly suspect many aspects of religious freedom and limits once understood will be tested. Look toward Europe for an illustration of this as Sharia law gains recognition in the courts.
DeleteAnother Article:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.azcentral.com/news/politics/articles/20130111arizona-foster-children-polygamist-colorado-city.html
Single former FLDS doing the foster care, had his kids taken by Warren Jeffs - yet still has ties to the community.
My problem with this is simple. As long as the activity is illegal, it should be illegal to put children in the homes.
I agree wholeheartedly. That is the one of several reasons I am glad Merri never adopted.
DeleteSo you don't want a child going to a foster care home of a family who lives in plural marriage because its illegal, correct? So if it becomes legal, you would be okay with it?
DeleteAre you okay with single parents being foster parents?
Is it just religous polygamy or all polygamy that you're against placing a foster care child with? What if they legally have more than one lover (polyamory) but aren't breaking the law by practicing polygamy? You'd be okay with that because that's legal right? I am genuinely curious.
As I stated that is one of several reasons that I do not think they should be allowed to be foster parents. The fact that they are engaging in illegal activity day to day sets an example that laws do not have to be followed. I am fine with single or married parents being foster parents provided they can give the children the attention that they deserve and if you have ever taken in foster children you would know the demands of time involved. Honestly if polgyamy were legal and it was a loving plyg household that didn't already have enough children to form their own daycare center I would not have a problem with that either. However due to their beliefs plyg families tend to always have huge numbers of children already. Plygs outside of the Browns tend to put religion front and center in everything that they do. In our state you are not supposed to indoctorine foster kids into your own beliefs and I can see why. The little boy we had was terrfied of Jesus because his mom had told him Jesus required beatings to get into Heaven. We intially wanted to bring him to church to show him that Jesus was not evil but his therapist was very much against that as what was first and foremost was to help him heal and he was right. Can you imagine poor little girls being indoctorined into your only way into Heaven is to be submissive to men and accept polygamy.
DeleteThe article mentioned above read:
ReplyDelete"But Wayman's intentions and foster parent license aren't flying well with his Mohave County supervisor, Buster Johnson."
"A single adult living in Colorado City sends the hackles off the back of my neck," Johnson said.
I agree with Mohave County supervisor, Buster Johnson. I don't think Colorado City, a polygamist enclave, is a safe place for any children.
According to Wikipedia, there is a population of approximately 5,000 in Colorado City. 60.4% of the population are under 18 years of age, 11.4% are 18 to 24 years of age, 20.2% are 25 to 44 years of age, 6.3% are 45 to 64 years of age, and 1.7% are 65 years of age or older.
I also researched Colorado Citys demographics, I was not surprised that 69% of homes are rentals. The church owns nearly everything there.
DeleteWait a second....something doesn't ring true.
ReplyDeleteThis man says he has 20 children and then Warren Jeffs reassigned them to other men/families:
Why doesn't this guy fight for his kids in court? Get DNA tests on his kids? Take the women to court for at least 50/50 custody, if not full custody?
Instead, he says he isn't part of the FLDS, but makes no attempt to get out of the town, even after his family was taken away. Instead of fighting for his own children, he's adopted 2 and fosters others. Unless he's fostering kids from Colorado City that CPS has removed from FLDS homes, something doesn't seem right.
Maybe that's conspiracy theory-ish, but I do get the feeling that all is not being revealed to us by the newspaper, nor by this guy.
I'm assuming he doesn't fight for his own children because he is not the "legal" father to any of them. Since only one marriage can be legal (do they even file the first with the state?) he could only go after those kids, which I'm guessing if he has 20 the older kids are probably adult/almost adults anyways and there is not much that can be done with adult children.
DeleteSo his family gets reassigned and the children all have new daddies already. Even with a court ordered DNA test, he wouldn't get far. My guess is they would ship those families else were to avoid any form of lawsuit, public attention. I'm willing to bet the church would simply claim the women he is looking for are not there.
Not a whole heck of a lot you can do when you have no rights to begin with. WIthout your name on the paperwork there are so many ways a mother can duck having a DNA test anyway. Being moved would be one of them. They live a life with no paper trail (the women) so it would be real hard to find one individual amongst so many. Or Hell one of the leaders of the group could sign affidavids on every one of his children and guess what? The leader would become the legal father and bio dad can't do shit about it because he was never legally married to the mommy. The only time a man gets automatic rights is when he is married at the birth. Otherwise both parents have to sign a avidavid of paternity or the court has to order it.
I'm guessing as a former member of LDS he knows just about how impossible it is to get your kids back once the church takes them.
Really. I'd like to know how many children he sisn't fight for in court to keep, and therefore is not supporting, yet gets paid to take care of these. gmmmmmmm
ReplyDeleteWhen can we expect a review of the question and answer episode? Love your blog
ReplyDeleteA pox on the whole lot of them
ReplyDeleteLOL...and they are saying I'm rubber and you're glue what you say to me bounces off and sticks to you! LOL!
DeleteHe is a single man who has adopted 2, and HAD 20 children. if the courts were so concerned, why not get his legal rights back to his own children, and have him pay for them?
ReplyDeleteInstead, he gets paid to raise more kids, so the state pays either way.
I do not think adopting 2 adopting two, he is a great candidate. And then those kids are in that area? No way. he might be a great guy, who knows. But then MOVE, and be happy with the 22 he has.
Foster children need a lot of community support, and they will not get it there. Foster mother myself. Think of the school situation. ugh.
How do we know he hasn't tried to get his children back? Isn't when wives are reassigned, his children would go with their mother? If he doesn't have the money for a legal intervention, should he be punished if he wants to be a foster parent?
DeleteHis kids are his kids are his kids. That's a legal and biological fact.
DeleteIf I have a child with some random man and th3en things don't work out with this man, this man still has a legal obligation to my child, even though we are not married. This man also has legal rights to be in this child's life - even if I don't like it OR IF MY CHURCH DOESN'T LIKE IT. Legally, it's none of my church's business.
If I were to suddenly lose my mind and decide to marry a polygamist, my husband doesn't lose his legal rights to our children. If that were the case, I think many, many women would seek out polygamy as a way to cut their ex-husbands out of their childrens' lives.
I don't see this man being punished...I see a lot of unanswered questions.
6:39, in our world, yes. Not in the FLDS world. This father has almost no chance of ever getting custody of any of his children. The police, the judges and everyone involved works for the FLDS. The kids and wives have been reassigned. They are gone, period. They are as good as dead. Read any book on the FLDS to know what I mean. Because its so foreign to us. They are literally operating in another world. They have their own set of rules.
DeleteThese FLDS families have learned to live in secrecy because plural marriage is illegal. The affects of that are that they can easily
hide their children from their fathers and mothers.
Anonymouse- I beg to differ. Unless you are married legally a man is not automatically assumed the father. For example, I can have sex with a random man, have the baby and have yet another man sign an affidavit of paternity and poof, legally my baby is the legal child of man #2 not his biological father. So yes a mother can always go after her sperm donor but there are ways for a mother to trully screw over her babies father is she wanted too. There would be nothing he could do about it once the birth certificate is changed. Hell that man from somewhere like Virigina or something like that couldn't even get his own daughter back after the mother had her adopted without his consent. She simply claimed father unknown, terminated the rights, child was adopted and now he is out of luck. So no men don't have the same access rights women do and yes it is a lot harder for a man to get something like a DNA test if the mother is unwilling.
DeleteInteresting, Victoria...it certainly does make sense, what you're saying. I would think that if a man really wanted to claim paternity, he could go to the courts and start the process. The woman would then have to produce the child for DNA testing, otherwise, she'd be going against the court.
DeleteAs crafty as I am, I cannot make a baby, so I have no experience with this. All of my knowledge is from my friends and from reading, so maybe I'm missing something in the translation.
As a former Caseworker for another state, there are so many things here that needed thought through.
ReplyDelete1. Does each child has his/her own bedroom? a requirement in my state, and an important one. They are in a strange home, and need some space, esp. since many have been traumatized. They need to feel that security of no one in the room while sleeping.
2. The schools - are the majority of the children FLDS? If so, how is that going to relate to the foster child? If FLDS, it gives them no freedom from the situation. If not, it gives them no one to buddy nor have anything in common with.
3. Foster children have already been put through REAL hell. In today's society, you would be amazed at the situations we had to LEAVE them in before taking a child out. Therefore, they have tremendous emotional and nurturing needs. A single person is fine for 1 or 2, but cannot give more than that the nurturing and individual attention to 7, as he wishes to have. Once you have a foster parent taking on 3, 4, 5- they are often, not always, but MOST OFTEN using this as a form of income, and paid very well. Sadly, there are times when we have to use foster parents for that many. Reality is, there are plenty of 2 parent foster parents available that would better provide for the needs of the extra children.
One looking at this needs to realize that a F. parent may well receive over $1000 a month, food stamps, medical. That money goes directly to the FP. Of course it goes to cover expenses of the child, but often, unfortunately, does not.
Conclusion
He already has enough to take care of. FLDS aside, what he is making is a income, and the children will get neglected of their special needs. IF he was so invested in the welfare of children, he would be spending his time and efforts going after custody of HIS OWN 20. Since he is not, one would assume he is somewhat complacent with the FLDS. He's not afraid to fight for this cause, so why not your own. THAT makes me think he is not all on the up and up. Of course, every case is different and we do not have all the facts. However, just the fact that there is such a big deal being made about it, tends to make me think there is an issue with the man, and he needs no more. JMO.
Thank you, Caseworker.
DeleteYour post is a needed insight into what these children have been through, and also what their *special* needs are in this issue.
In CA kids aren't required to have their own bedroom. Just their own clothing & toys. IDK about AZ.
DeleteIts very easy for people to say that "if" he cared about his children, he would find them and bring them home. In a normal world, yes. But there is "no justice" for the FLDS. These children are told they now share the DNA of their new dad. The men have no chance of getting their families back. The police, the judges, everyone is pro-FLDS. They have no hope! The men are victims, too. We need to remember that they suffer alongside the women.
DeleteCaseworker, we need more caseworkers like you! You are right, kids have been thru hell in order to end up in foster care. Many people have a fantasy about how grateful the kids are going to be to the foster parents for having rescued them. We have already seen that Kody has this mindset when he was talking about Joe Darger and his third wife. The reality is that these kids are emotionally damaged for lack of a better word. No matter what their parents have done they generally cling to the idea that they will get better and resent caseworkers and foster parents for interfering, especially in the beginning. In our case I was supposed to take in the oldest and middle child but the oldest would not leave her baby brother behind because she did not believe anyone else would take care of him. It took our neighbor close to three months to gain her trust that she would make sure the baby was taken care of. The first week the oldest child would not even let her hold the baby. These children need therapy and people who they know will be there for them no matter how much they act out, and they will test you on that. A plyg can't devote a decent amount of time to their own children. There is no way they can give a foster child all of the special attention that they deserve.
DeleteAnd these are the same judges, etc., that would be sending kids into foster care in that area? Hmmm.
Delete@SadViewer: I agree. It's very easy for people who have never been involved in a religious movement like this to say "If he really loved them he would do X."
DeleteHe may not know where his 20 children are right now. Both his former wife and children have very likely been heavily indoctrinated to think that their father is no longer of familial relation to him. Last I checked, a preponderance of custody cases in AZ still sided with the mother.
Further, the extend to which the FLDS has infiltrated the government in Colorado City and the surrounding area is extensive. They've got their tentacles everywhere. If this man passed an especially thorough screening to become a foster parent and is sending the children to public schools and meeting their needs, I don't see any reason to treat him like a pariah.
The FLDS are anything but an ordinary church. They're a sophisticated criminal organization that has trafficked in child brides for decades. I wish I knew of a way to get them discredited as a "church." The crime in that organization is sickening and few people outside their society have any idea of certain atrocities that have taken place.
DeleteAnd nothing of the original church makes sense. Magic stones? Joseph Smith said to multiply to create planets, yet he did not (or for sure, anyway) with other wives? I can understand that if your entire family was there it might be hard, but, like you, it would not be for me. My life and my children's would be far more important, and the whole false god thing really bothers me. I'm one that watched the old film about Mormonism on youtube, and was SHOCKED. Do they really believe that Lucifer and Jesus were brothers? That God came down and had sex with Mary? That Jesus had wives? Seems so blasphemous to me, and I'm not super religious, but have my limits. Please correct any of these concepts that are wrong, and your ideas on them. Thanks!
DeleteThis is another good reason to keep Poly marriage illegal. If it becomes legalized what will stop these groups from making cash fostering children? Its not about freedom, they have the freedom, clearly they are all living it out on tv. complain! Nevada needs to do what Utah Will NOT ever do, what Texas Did. Make sure these people know Nevada is not a shelter city for plygs! Arizona and Utah for whatever reasons shelter these people. I dont care about religion, this is welfare fraud and we all know it. http://ag.state.nv.us/ This guy could be grooming prospective future wives for all we know!
ReplyDeleteI wonder if there is any type of foster care fraud occurring, not necessarily in this case specifically, but in Colorado City? For example, CPS removes the kids from the Barlows' home and places them in the Jessops' home down the street, and gives the Jessops a monthly check for their care. Unbeknownst to CPS, the Jessops quietly returned the kids to the Barlows, but the Jessops continue to cash the checks. I recall that there has been some fraud in which families continue to collect checks on Lost Boys that they kicked out of town years earlier.
ReplyDeletePS: In the Lost Boys case, IIRC the checks in question were Social Security, not foster checks. Just wondering if the FLDS have figured out a way to defraud the foster care system.
DeleteThe new realiy tv show on oxygen, "all My Babies Mamas" was canceled before it ever aired. That guy only had 11 kids. Peole were too outraged yet sisterwives is still on. Why can't krody and krew be seen for what they are. He isdoing the same thing only using systematic brainwashing and a scary pimp wife and churchleaders to get sex partners.
ReplyDeleteBecause he doesn't claim to be married to all 10 of the women at the same time, they don't all live together, and a couple of groups threatened to boycott the advertisers.
DeleteThe single mom thing is a very interesting topic. As Americans were a hell of a lot more tolerant of single moms than we are of plural marriage. There are many more people accepting of people sleeping around before marriage than we are of a poly lifestyle. I think examining why it bothers us is a good place to start.
DeleteI was hoping that show would make it to air so maybe the Brown women could see how they are no different then the baby mommas. Of course Christine and Meri seem to think that is how all monogamous marriages work.
DeleteAs long as plural wives are illegal, the secrecy will breed more abuse. Keeping it illegal has done so much damage to families.
ReplyDeleteIf we make it legal...people will take advantage of it and find loop holes and use our system to find discrimination of some sort.
Deletehmmmmm I'm thinking they already have...
Do all those plyg families get social security numbers for their children?? I just don't understand why they are exempt from having social workers checking on them and looking out for their well being. Because if a kid is out of school doing labor....something is wrong!!!!
Legal wives keep secrets, too. Legalizing polygamy won't stop the abuse, imo...
DeleteHi SadViewer: Even if polygamy became legal, I believe that the FLDS would still be secretive due to their underage and forced marriages, incest, welfare fraud, suspicious infant mortality rates, child abandonment(Lost Boys) and other illegal activity.
DeleteI agree with all of the above.
DeleteHowever, legalizing plural marriage means that many more men will be supporting their own children bc the moms wouldn't be single. So that's less welfare usage. They simply would not qualify for so much aid. Because dads income would count.
Additionally, the secrecy breeds so much abuse. These people are paranoid of being caught and sent to jail for plural marriage. So they fear police, CPS and anyone on the outside. So if that have any problems such as spousal abuse, they are afraid of the police and they will not ask for help.
I do understand that their problems are so profound there isn't one solution. However, legalizing their marriages would be a giant step in the right direction IMO.
Regarding school as mentioned above that's another way these kids are being abused. Their homeschooling consists of isolation and indoctrination. Utah has the countries most lax homeschool requirements. Nobody is checking on those kids, nobody. One of the reasons these kids are kept out of school is because plural marriage is illegal.
In order to get these families out of the shadows we have got to erase their extreme fear of prosecution and decriminalize plural marriage. Keeping plural marriage illegal has not worked.
Hi SadViewer (love that name): Ironically, I doubt that most plygs would get marriage licenses for all of their wives if they could. The current system of not getting legally married nets them a lot of welfare money.
DeleteIf you read the polygamy-related books Church of Lies as well as Escape, it seems that, despite the Mormon polygamists' claims of having stronger marriages than monogamists, there is a buttload of plural marriages that don't work out. I can imagine that the FLDS men have noticed how fragile their marriages are, and don't want to go through the legal hassles of divorcing repeatedly.
Hi MagicUndies, thanks! :) I have read Stolen Innocence & Prophets Prey recently. Thanks for the reccomendations. I'm also going to read Gods Brothel.
DeleteMy hope would be they would take marriage more seriously if it were more formal. Weddings being done in motel rooms certainly hasn't served them well.
Magic undies you are exactly right. If you make plural marriage legal you would have to simplify divorce like in arab countries where u just have to say it 4 times anf there you go u got rid of one wife. If plural marriage and bigamy was legalized it would mean anyones h usband could take another wife. It would ruin all of our rights as women.
DeleteI loved reading Church of LIes. Flora Jessop is one gutsy feisty little 90 lb. pitbull. wouldn't wanna cross her.
DeleteIt's a huge mistake to claim that legalizing polygamy will somehow put an end to the abuse. That is pure speculation, and there's no precedent.
DeleteI wrestled with this issue years ago, but after studying philosophy for over a decade, I'm not going there. That's the libertarian solution, and it's no solution at all. The FLDS are a crime organization and the AUB have some pretty nasty skeletons too. Wherever we have polygamists controlling their own law enforcement, the sexual abuse is hideous.
Nope, not for me. I'll fight the legalization of polygamy for the rest of my life if that's what it takes.
I learn so much from your comments and posts. The reason I rely on them so much is the fact you look at these problems with an honesty and compassion that is reliable. I never feel you would embellish or fib to emphasize your points. This makes you a very reliable source, and hope you will come back and help us that are new to the blog and all this "religion/cult" to continue our learning experience. Thank you, Troy.
DeleteANON 12:56, Not sure about Arizona, but just look at the elected officals of Utah, most are Mormon and even though they say its illegal for poly to exist, you know as well as I do they just wink at it
ReplyDeleteI don't think it's so much *winking* as it is a PR nightmare.
DeleteWomen and children getting 'ripped' from the bosom of their nurturing, loving families? Men being dragged off to jail? The sobbing, the crying, the outrage! How can so much "love" be criminal?
What a disaster - it will be Short Creek 1953 all over again. Plus, there will be LOTS of Kody Browns all over the TV!
If the public had clearly understood and reacted to the underage so-called "marriages" (in actual terms statutory rapes) going on in Short Creek in 1953, maybe there wouldn't have been the indifference that allowed that community to carry on unchecked for decades. The legacy of this inaction has been the huge increase of the polygamous population, the vile actions of the man we see pictured above, and untold misery for men, women, and most of all for the children our society has failed to protect.
DeleteWhat is your take on this situation? If the man can't get his own kids back, doesn't that mean this area is corrupt and foster children don't need to be there?
DeleteI don't know the personal details of this man. He was thrown out of the FLDS, but we have no idea if he is still supportive of polygamy, just in another guise. But whatever the facts are about him, this community is a mess right now and hardly the place for an at-risk child. Kids need some kind of normal, and Colorado City/Hildale isn't it.
Delete6:21, I agree whole heartily. They would love that. It would solidify how "evil" the outside world is for them. And it would paint a clear picture of how outsiders will "victimize" them.
DeleteIn other words, it would backfire, like it did in 1953 @ Short Creek/Colorado City in Arizona & again in 2008 @ the Yearn For Zion ranch in Texas.
9:40 I totally agree with you.
DeleteColorado City, Arizona is not a place where people have their rights as American citizens. Not a place for our most vulnerable. If a child is in need of foster care, I think that's about the last place they should be.
However, the FLDS are very accustomed to "bleeding the beast." Once they realize there is money to be made within our foster care system, we should expect an influx of foster care parent applications from FLDS members.
I almost hate clicking on these stories, because the accompanying photos of Warren Jeffs always send a chill straight down my spine. That man has dead eyes.
ReplyDeleteHaving to have sex with this man is a great reason to ban polygamy - religion based Kookoos. If a man wants to have 6 baby momas, at least they are not tied to planets and heaven.
ReplyDeleteHey... I live in Lake Havadu City!
ReplyDeleteJust choked on my ham sandwich when I saw the photo of this horrible evil thing. They need to move him out of special housing and into general population where he can get his deserved justice. He is not starving himself to make a point. He is doing so to keep in special housing so he continue to work the system.
ReplyDeleteMove those kids to other parts of the US where they can get away from the brain washing that goes on in the hillbilly area they are from. No baby, inbreeding is not as common as you were brought up to believe. Reprogram those children to not believe it is ok to be married to their grandpa's brother. Pleeasse!
I have missed many a good post on here until it was too late and could not respond, so I URGE ALL OF YOU to read this post above:
ReplyDeleteBoots - January 18, 2013 at 1:39 PM
THIS lady is well informed and has an interesting post!
Best example of moral panic I ever seen
DeleteMoral panics have several distinct features. According to Goode and Ben-Yehuda, moral panic consists of the following characteristics:
Concern – There must be awareness that the behaviour of the group or category in question is likely to have a negative impact on society.
Hostility – Hostility towards the group in question increases, and they become "folk devils". A clear division forms between "them" and "us".
Consensus – Though concern does not have to be nationwide, there must be widespread acceptance that the group in question poses a very real threat to society. It is important at this stage that the "moral entrepreneurs" are vocal and the "folk devils" appear weak and disorganised.
Disproportionality – The action taken is disproportionate to the actual threat posed by the accused group.
Volatility – Moral panics are highly volatile and tend to disappear as quickly as they appeared due to a wane in public interest or news reports changing to another topic
The term "moral panic" is also used to discredit justifiable concerns, and I think that there is sufficient evidence to show that the practices of the FLDS community are highly damaging to its membership, especially to the young. I do however agree that there is insufficient evidence to condemn the man who is fostering these kids, however much we might question the good sense of placing kids in that community.
DeleteAnon @ 5:00, I agree. And thanks for sharing that info. It was very interesting!
DeleteThis man should be considered based upon the same standards as any other foster parent.
And if the government decides the entire city is unsafe for children, then they need to do something about it.
Until and if...denying this man as a foster parent looks a heck of a lot like religious persecution.
There's no moral panic here - just complete thought processes of how children would be unhealthy in that area. Look at the 6 children brought in and adopted. One, at 12, became Warren Jeff's bride!
Deleteanony 5:00
DeleteAlthough I do not know your information, or involvement with CPS, Colorado City, or the foster care system, will have to say I totally disagree with you viewpoint if you are saying, or implying that "Boots" AKA K. Dee Ignantin is in any way creating a Moral Panic. This woman had no ties to the org. or religion. She has seen horrific sights- so much so she gave up most of what she had to join in a cause to help free women from this plight. She has done great studies on the Colorado City and knows the area well. From what she has first hand seen and been involved with, her knowledge base far outreaches any of ours; she did not condemn the man himself. It is very easy to say let CPS do their job, but if the CPS are FLDS, where exactly will that lead?
There is a far reaching aspect of this case many do not know. The last thing a foster child needs is to be placed in Colorado City. I agree with caseworker above and K. Dee. This would not be headline news if there wasn't a deeper, darker, underlying problem coming up. This probably has nothing to do with the man trying to foster care more children, but his area.
The goal is the welfare of the children. This is a depressed, FLDS ran city. No place for already troubled youth. CPS will be FLDS. Where is the safty for the child then?
The sad truth in society today is that people don't want to get their hands dirty, in general. We like to make fun of the Browns, per say, (me included) but not look at the real abuses. Freedoms and liberties are being taken away. Hopefully, more people will reach out and care about others and not be afraid to say, yes, this is wrong.
Not just on this topic, but many that involve human freedom and liberty. Sadly, this has become a "me" generation.
This is not a moral panic. it is a huge state wide problem. I respect your opinion, but wanted to state mine. Thanks.
Nobody here knows this man or his exact situation. So much intolerance and judgement. There are many foster children in "normal" foster homes suffering abuse and neglect. The fact that he lives in CC does not determine whether or not these children are in a safe/unsafe home. I hope CPS did their job, just like I do in ANY other case. But, I think its unfair to make assumptions.
ReplyDeleteWhat we DO know though, is that the community is very unstable. There is not even a store open to buy food, and half the community is following a madman and won't speak to the "unworthy" there. For kids who have already been through difficult times, taking them to that place is lunacy.
DeleteI second that, explyg.
DeleteAs I understand it, the goal of DCFS is protection of the children and preservation of the families inasmuch as possible. I sat on the local CASA Advisory Board of Directors (an honorary position) for several years and I am well acquainted with the shortcomings in our local foster system. It's a well-meaning system but it has its kinks.
ReplyDeleteFor various reasons I've considered respite(short-term) fostering. I was told it was 'quicker' to go through a local faith-based organization rather than solely DCFS. Even though I had to apply and was approved by the State, ultimately it was determined that I did not meet the group's standards (in other words, my sedate Episcoplian self was not "churchy" enough for them, and it even was suggested that I join a more evangelical church). The entire experience left me feeling very let down.
I wonder if this child was placed through a similar organization?
That's very interesting. I myself have never gone through a faith based program. Cudos for being on the CASA board! Obviously you are a very caring person. What findings did you discover while there? Not bashing CPS workers at all when I say this: Their caseloads in the state I am in are far greater than anyone could manage, and therefore too many quick decisions are made. My heart goes out to those workers who are faced with unrealistic challenges and responsibilities.
DeleteI have been a foster parent myself for a long time, so when I went through training, it was short and had 3 children in my home in no time.
Blessed were my husband and I that we had the time and our own money to do this. We take breaks and then go back into it from time to time, but never more than 2. These children need a huge amount of support from the social community they are in as well as the family. Not bragging, but I feel my end is the nurturing, loving part. My husband is a child advocate also and goes to court with children. It sounds like your heart and soul is in the right place, and I encourage you to go back to your county CPS and go through the process to become FP. In the long run, the lives you change will also change yours. I wish you all the best.
Another anevue for you might be to be a Domestic Violence Advocate. you volunteer to go to court with women for simple moral support and companionship. It can really make a difference, also.
Kudos to your husband for being an advocate. I honestly do not think I am strong enough to handle that; I began by volunteering in other capacities and ultimately was asked to join the board. I am more than happy to do whatever I can to support the advocates and raise awareness in general.
DeleteI think it's the same everywhere--caseworkers are overwhelmed because the need is so great. I honestly believe they are doing the best they can. I would never slam them. I do think some of the caseworkers burn out because they are lacking in support, which is a common problem. A friend works for a state-governed youth home and she feels that the emphasis is more on completing the paperwork than on counseling the kids. She calls it "forms for funds".
I make in-kind donations to one of our local DV coalitions. I always am given two tickets to their fancy party for making a donation and I raffle those off among my customers--I own a small business and use this as a dual marketing tool/teeny fundraiser anytime I am comped tickets to an event. Which really has no bearing on anything in this conversation...
I haven't given up on fostering. I salute you and your husband for your work!
AZFoster Mom - good for you! I'm certain you have made a difference in many lives, even when it seems as though you were unable to 'get through'. Your husband most certainly gives the young men and women a positive male role-model, and that can make a huge difference in their young lives. Thank you!
DeleteAnon4:38 - it boggles my mind that you're good enough to sit on the board, but not 'churchy' enough to be a good candidate for foster parent. I can only imagine your frustration and disappointment with the situation. I never thought of the presence or absense of religion as a major factor for fostering, but I would think that the state would encourage less religion instead of more. The only exception would be if the parents/family specifically request for their child to be placed with a 'churchy' family/couple/person.
I guess I never thought of the CPS people who qualified this man to be a foster parent as being FLDS, but it would make a lot of sense. One more way to Bleed the Beast. One more way to get government funds into their community. One more way to recrut more FLDS. If the child runs away, there's still money to be collected - just don't report it.
The Colorado City community DEFINITELY needs a good, long look-over by someone uninvolved...someone who can see what is really going on and who isn't afraid of political, personal, or religious backlash, but I doubt it will happen. Unfortunately.
I always come to see what my peers over here at this blog have to say about Jeffs and other news topics concerning FLDS in the news. I'm always impressed at how this group thinks things through for the rights of people vs just hate the group. You are an impressive bunch!
ReplyDeleteThis is what should be looked at everytime the Dargers rollout their politics. This picture.
ReplyDeleteGreat article and thanks for your work. I will back again and again.
ReplyDeletefostering children
UNTHINKABLE!
ReplyDeleteThere's a family in our community in the south, and they basically live off their welfare children, Thankfully, after someone saw him beat one of them, they were taken to a better home. These would be groomed to be workers or new wives.,