Randi Kaye talks with a former polygamist who says, polygamy is not an option.
Kristen Decker, tells of her life in “Fifty Years in Polygamy: Big Secrets and Little White Lies”. She is now the president of the Hope Organization.
That "makes us better people" Sister Wives talk about may be for a higher level later on. Kristen Decker talks about how she felt throughout her time in the A.U.B.
To hear more of Kristen, you may go to: http://kpcw.org/2012/06/community-voices-june-14-2012/ and download the audio.
Also in the download a discussion about the Lindbergh kidnapping.
Recently, Charles Lindbergh was discussed as a possible polygamist.
We posted about it:
http://sisterwivesblog.blogspot.com/2011/09/aviator-lindbergh-fathered-children-by.html
http://sisterwivesblog.blogspot.com/2011/09/charles-lindbergh-polygamist.html (Clip Courtesy of CNN Newsroom online) 
Going to the Library to get the book tomorrow, I bet she shows a REAL side of the AUB. Thanks for this!
ReplyDeleteI wish I could read that book.
ReplyDeleteNot sure if you know this or not, but you can download a FREE Kindle Cloud Reader at Amazon.com that will allow you to read Kindle books on many devices, computers, tablets, laptops and smartphones.
DeleteNot pitching Kindle vs. Nook, it's just that I know about it because I have a Kindle and I also will read books on my computer. My sister-in-law doesn't have one and sometimes I will loan her mine and she reads them on the Cloud Reader. Amazon books are only loanable one time though from what I've read. I think Nook books are loanable more.
Anyway, the book is on sale for $4.29 for Kindle.
I got it on Itunes for 4.99. Just got done with Irene Spencer's book. I COULD NOT PUT IT DOWN!!! I read it in 1 night.
DeleteIf this helps, this was on the post below, I downloaded it!
ReplyDeleteFrom Anonmous, I forgot the time!
I saw this woman on a TV interview the other night. Got her book only $4.29 on Kindle right now. MUCH BETTER than Sister Wives book by far!!
It's Called FIFTY YEARS IN POLYGAMY. She was First Wife in an AUB plyg marriage.
http://www.amazon.com/Fifty-Years-Polygamy-Secrets-ebook/dp/B007Z3QQV2
(no, i don't get anything for promoting it. Just thought others would like to check it out, too.)
34 yrs, that's a long time! Good for her and I might buy her book. I'd sure like to hear a real story after the fractured fairy tale that SW tries to put out there.
ReplyDeleteI'd love to know approx statistics about how many children born into these families actually end up practicing polyg. Seems like there would be tons and tons of these sects if most of the kids born into them stayed in them.
The Kingston and Jeffs groups are known for having babies who die shortly after birth, because their lines are so inbred. That explains one reason their numbers aren't as high.
DeleteA free preview of the book can be found here:
ReplyDeletehttp://es.scribd.com/doc/91798338/Fifty-Years-in-Polygamy
CRAP!!! I just realized, I've been submitting all of my T-shirt ideas, to the old email address: lovetvreality@gmail.com O_o ....do I need to resend them to the one address at the bottom of the T-shirt post??
ReplyDeleteThat's just fine! It's the original address, still used!
DeleteWhew!! That's a relief! ;D
DeleteLast one just went up! Want to grab it Caramel?
DeleteI just sent one in for Amused :D
DeleteCaramel Brownie,
DeleteTHANK YOU so much !!!! I feel like a bird without wings until the tech can figure out what went wrong with our system after that blackout from the storm.
I REALLY appreciate your help.:-))
Hey no problem Amused, & I totally understand! Hope ur tech can figure it out soon :D
DeleteI know this is off topic, but I cannot find the link to the Natalie Morales interview. Does anyone have it?
ReplyDeleteIt's been posted a couple of times, look at the discussion post below this one, I think it's there or in the T shirt thread.
DeleteThanks! I'll look in the discussion below. I couldn't find it in the Tee Shirt discussion.
DeleteI just finished Kristyn's book along with Susan Schmidt, and Elissa Wall's biographies. I feel like all three books give a different view of polygamy. But the resounding theme in all three is how hopeless these women get, and the extreme pressure these women feel to stay in these harmful relationships and this oppressive religion. When I first started reading, I was like why do they stay, and then it hit me, they truly feel like they will go to hell if they leave. I would hate for that to be my belief on where I spend an eternity, and having to spend years in emotional and physical abusive relationships. They also feel pressure to not leave other family members, and don't want to lose out on their relationships with sister, mothers, etc.
ReplyDeleteThe saddest part to me is knowing there is thousands of stories like this out there, and it is still going on today. Warren Jeffs is still making decrees from prison, and he still has his followers.
It sickens me how women are just objects and property to many of these men. Poor Kristyn was abused as a child, and IMHO that is how women and girls will continue to be treated until their mindset is changed, and they are loved as equals.
I read both books that you mentioned as well as a few others including Carolyn Jessop's and Irene Spencer's books. If I remember correctly, Susan Schmidt was once a sister wive to Irene Spencer. (It's so difficult to keep some of these people straight, since their family trees are so intertwined.) I, definitely, will read Kristen Decker's book.
DeleteAll these women talked of neglect and denial of feelings. Even though Irene Spencer's husband, Verlan LeBaron, seemed tame compared to Carolyn's and Elissa's husbands, I still found Verlan LeBaron to be the typical polygamist husband. I have to Verlan some credit,though. He actually worked, but he was still indifferent to his wives' deepest needs and feelings. Kody Brown, however, is just downright insensitive. To me, he is just like Merrill Jessop, but with a bit of sense of humor, even if it's a sophomoric and stupid sense of humor. Merrill Jessop was flat out mean to most of his wives.
another really good one is Flora Jessop's Church of Lies. she has some creepy insight about Warren Jeffs as a teen molester in it. but it's a hard read at times cause the physical and emotional abuse is pretty graphic.
DeleteDaughter of the Saints by Dorothy Allred Solomon, the daughter of the founder of the AUB is a great read as well.
DeleteI read Flora's book, too. I find Flora to be very honest and passionate about what she does and why. I think that comes with her experiences. She is one tough lady. In the mess that she was brought up in, she managed to free her mind and her body of this cult. More power to her. Yes, at times, reading certain parts of her book was too much, but I think it needs to be read, because I believe that her story is more of the norm among FLDS (and other plyg groups) and not the exception. Flora's book demonstrates the reasons that polygamy is wrong. Even if it were to be decriminalized, there would still be the same problems, because it's completely dysfunctional and unnatural. The only way to keep people in that extreme dysfunction is through absolute control and fear.
DeleteThe FLDS is a closed society, where abuses are either covered up or ignored. People might argue that the FLDS, as well as other polygamist groups are closed societies due to fact that polygamy is illegal. I firmly disagree, though!!! There are many closed societies/cults with the same abuses that operate under the laws. (Take Scientology or Jehovah's Witnesses, for instance.) Cult leaders,no matter what religion, place unusual demands on their followers because they love the power. Certain polygamist leaders use the 'legality' issue to their own advantage. They instill fear in their followers by telling them that they will be arrested, separated from children,etc. However, I don't believe that legalizing or even decriminalizing polygamy will remove the abuse from polygamist societies. These people are still emotionally imprisoned because they are taught from birth that we 'gentiles' are the devil's spawn. They are taught to fear us 'gentiles'. Plyg members are threatened with shunning. When all you know is your small community, shunning is like being exiled to a foreign land. It can be worse than death itself. Trust me I know. I was a JW. The WTS operates well within the law. But, you are taught that anyone who isn't a JW is bad. If you are disfellowshipped (JW lingo for shunning) you are lost. Even your own family is told not to speak to you or have anything to do with you unless you live in the same home with your JW family. When all your friends and family are told to ignore you, it's very difficult to leave. You have to learn how to trust the 'others'who aren't JWs. I agonized for 2 years before I left the JWs. I had to leave behind all my friends and much of my extended family. That was well over ten-years-ago. They still don't even acknowledge me if we see each other on the street. It still hurts at times. Leaving the WTS was difficult. It's a closed society, but not nearly as closed as polygamist groups. It's still extremely difficult to leave when you are held emotionally hostage. That being said, I cannot imagine the courage one has to muster to leave a polygamist group. Some of these polygamist leaders believe in blood atonement. Leaving the group could result in death. That's why I think it's important for people like Flora Jessop to tell the full story no matter how disturbing or revolting it is. The world needs to know that these people are not there under their own free will even when they believe they are. The more I learn about polygamy the more convinced I am that it's unnatural and evil.
I totally disagree with you about Jehovah's Witnesses, the disfellowship arrangement is to keep the congregation clean, it's not a punishment, but an arrangement from God out of love for the disfellowshipped person to repent or turn around from their sinful path, it's not the finality, the person can be reinstated when they stop practicing gross sin..
Delete@New Shoes
DeleteMy two cents. I also diasgree about the Jehovah's Witnesses, and heartily agree with Anon 4:08 comments. I'm uncomfortable comparing plyg cults to Jehovah's Witnesses, its like comparing chalk and cheese. One community is abusive and illegal, and the other is loving and obeys the laws of the land.
Seriously? The comments from Anonymous on July 8 at 4:08, and on July 11 at 7:43, seem really insensitive the original poster's story. Any enforced practice of "disfellowshipping" whereby the "sinner" is prohibited from contact with his/her family and loved ones is sick, IMO. Even murderers should be allowed contact with their loved ones; it's such a basic human need. New Shoes, I am terribly sorry about your experiences and am glad you got out of a community that was oppressing your soul.
DeleteKristen's story is so poignant in that she describes what is a recurring theme for the women of polygamy. They absolutely believe(and fear)that their spiritual survival is dependent on their ability to suffer and endure.
ReplyDeleteIt is similar to a battered woman's sense of fear and defeat when she considers leaving the abuse. Having worked in Domestic Violence and seen countless women come in for rescue, the scenario repeats over and over because the victim loses touch with her decision-making faculties. Her self-identity erodes and literally shuts down. She become an emotional robot, having lost any sense of life-options or escape.
In Domestic Violence, a woman eventually fears for her physical life; where in Polygamy, she fears for her spiritual life.
Either way, until the woman reaches a personal breakpoint like Kristen and so many others have, these women will continue to live in the shadows, and by default, allow their female children to tolerate such a life choice and also encourage their male children (as future harem masters) to suffer and/or to inflict the same fate.
Sister Wives has *greatly* helped to show the viewing non-plyg world exactly what the Plyg World is all about. And surely not the way they had intended !!!!
Loved reading your post, and I love SWB because they show the truth, and SW just wanted to say lifestyle and drop it. Really, SWB has helped to teach many.
Delete@Amused: You are spot on!!! Whether it is physical, spiritual or emotional abuse, the result is still the same...FEAR!! What many people don't understand about polygamy is that most polygamist groups hold their members emotionally hostage. Many of these people, men and women alike, are born into this lifestyle. The majority of these peoples' ancestors were practicing polygamy all the way back to the days of Joseph Smith and Brigham Young. It is as much a part of them as any other religion like Catholicism, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, etc, etc. The difference is that in these modern times, many polygamist sects still don't allow their members to associate with us 'gentiles'. They are held in emotional bondage. Women are threatened with losing their children if they leave. Men are threatened with losing their wives and children to other men if they don't go along with the sect's dogma. If they go to the authorities, they risk the safety of their extended family members, too.
DeleteMale teens can be thrown out, literally, on the road with nothing but the shirts on their backs if they even so much as act like normal teen boys. I watched a documentary about the LOST BOYS on A&E. One youth was tossed out on road for playing basketball...basketball, for heaven sake!!
I am all for adults choosing their own lifestyle. I am all for parents being able to raise their children the way they see fit. I have would have no problem with this lifestyle as long as people weren't being abused on any level or other facet of their lives. I certainly don't want the government telling me or my family how to live, but I have yet to see where this lifestyle is wholesome and productive (by productive, I don't mean producing oodles of children).
The older I get, the more I see that the decisions a person makes can affect others for generations. For example, my grandfather was an alcoholic. Out of his four children, two became substance abusers and one married a substance abuser. There are 6 grandchildren, 4 are substance abusers. One isn't (me) and I'm not sure about one of my cousins.
DeleteI've studied the history of the LDS church and, IMO, Joseph Smith jr. received a "revelation" about plural marriage because of lust. LDS missionaries today will tell you that plural marriage was a practical solution to the problem of too many women/not enough men in the pioneer days. Anyone who cares to look will find that some of JS jr's wives were already the wives of other men. Look at all the pain and suffering that can be laid at Joseph Smith jr's door, all because he abused his power for his own sick desires.
I'm a Christian and don't think this lifestyle is morally right but I honestly wouldn't really care, except for what the children have to endure. In my opinion, polygamy is spiritually, emotionally and financially abusive at it's best
Well said and I believe all the same, Delicateflower.
DeleteI found a great christian blog that said we carry our forfathers sins, and I believe we do, if they don't either educate us on it, or change it.
Some are unintentional, diseases not yet known, etc., but it caused mental illness that carries on, etc. Very interesting.
These kids need to "break the cycle"
Forgive me if this has been posted before, but I somehow found www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/classics/ervil_lebaron-cult/index.html. Ervil Lebaron was responsible for the death of Rulon Allred, and this actually makes Allred look like a saint, by comparison. It's lengthy, but even more eye-opening and ghastly.
ReplyDeleteI have also read numerous books on polygamy and it is absolutely true that starting at a very young age, they are taught that they must live the plural lifestyle in order to please God and to get into the celestial kingdom. They are taught that they are special to even have had these revelations shared with them because they are the chosen people by God who will live in the highest glory in heaven. They believe that once you know about the principle and then don’t live it, you will be eternally ruined and be in hell. I have read that the women often wish they had never been ‘told’ about the plural lifestyle because they are taught it’s worse to ‘know’ and turn your back on it then to not know (like the ‘Gentiles’ – all who are not in their faith). They believe their rewards are in heaven and they are told that their sacrifice and submissiveness is required in this life on earth but once in Heaven, they will be extraordinarily happy. They are told this from the time they can understand the human word. The lines “ we become better people by learning to deal with jealousy” and all those other canned lines are straight out of the AUB handbook, so to speak.
ReplyDeleteAs opposed to mainstream Christianity (I am not a religious expert here, just what I know as a Protestant), this faith does not believe in a merciful, gracious God. They believe you must ‘earn’ your way into heaven by living the plural lifestyle and being pleasing to God at all times. When things like sickness happen, they are often told that it was because they had displeased God. In fact, Warren Jeffs had a huge group of people convinced in the second coming of Jesus (sometime in the late 90s I believe) and when it didn’t happen, he blamed them for not being worthy of the second coming and it was all their fault because they had not been pleasing to God (as opposed to him just making the whole thing up).
Christine, Meri and Robyn were all brought up in the faith and have been indoctrinated in the teachings since they were toddlers. For them, there is no other option for heaven. Janelle, on the other hand, is a convert, so I can see why she would have left for awhile when things got so bad with Meri. Of course, who knows why she went back and what Kody told her to draw her back into the fold? And interestingly, when asked in the Natalie Morales interview, if it was all worth it, Janelle is the most insistent that it is worth it “ABSOLUTELY”.
That is why I wonder if Janelle is really all that smart...can't she do a little research and self contemplation and see if 'the lifestyle' really makes sense?
I don't think Janelle is all that smart, and never thought she was. But, compared to Klody & the rest of the heard she SEEMS to be very smart. In the world of the blind, one eye (with bad vision) is king.
DeleteI think that heaven doctrine is very strong. That they - just like other sects - believe a life of suffering and hardship is a ticket to heaven.
She believes, truely believes, that she has to stand Klody for her ticket to paradise. Though, aparently, she'd still be stuck with him on HIS planet. That must be even worse.
On Kody's planet, with the sisterwives she hates...but the good news is she can keep bearing children forever. I would be depressed, too, if I was being so 'sweet' on earth to have that to look forward to in the after life.
DeleteThe idea of being perpetually pregnant in heaven would be the only reason I would need to not spend eternity in heaven. I can't imagine a woman who would desire this kind of eternity. I know they feel it is a reward to produce spirit babies and this may be a draw for these women who value the idea of having numerous children. Maybe my own difficult pregancies color my view, but I wouldn't be a taker.
Delete"That is why I wonder if Janelle is really all that smart...can't she do a little research and self contemplation and see if 'the lifestyle' really makes sense?"
DeleteCPA Carol,
I have wondered along those lines about Janelle. Obviously, she DOES come off somewhat brighter and more practical when contrasted against the other four adults. (which really wouldn't be hard to do)
However, it does seem that her reasoning skills are lacking or at this point, to be inert. Janelle does seem at times to be disconnected from all the SW drama and posturing, but unfortunately, not in a productive way to consider making alternative choices for herself and her kids.
Or.....*Kody just is one hellava good salesman.*
I think Janele as a very strong feeling of "heaven" and got het eyes on the prize *but* has emotionally checked out of her relationship with Klody as a way to be able to keep on keeping on. But she also has emotionally checked out of life with her eyes one prize. The only thing she has in life are her kids & food (which helps her deal with all of her emotions and feelings). Therefore, she'll never be slim, or she'd have to find something else to numb her feelings with.
DeleteI think that a distinction can be made between Janelle's ability to articulate her thoughts (better than the other 'adults') and her level of intelligence. I do believe that she has a certain level of 'book smarts', however, I also think that her extremely low self-esteem far outweighs her ability to think of her life situation with any kind of objectivity. I think that because she is quite articulate, she can rationalize her life in a way that comes across to the viewer in a more sympathetic and convincing way. I truly believe that she has in essence brainwashed herself into believing that this religion is her calling. I don't really think that Kody & his Krew needed to do much convincing on their end to get her to drink the Kool-Aid. If anything, I think it was the other way around. I think she so deserately wanted to be wanted, that she convinced Kody that this was her calling (and at the same time, convinced herself, too).
DeleteWHen you talk about kool aid are you referring to Jonestown?
DeleteI do think Janelle has book smarts but maybe not street smarts. I also thought that maybe since she is more of a career minded person that maybe she is not as badly affected then the others and can ignore Kody. (If I was her I would have to drink a lot to be around Him.)
DeleteFrom what I've seen, Janelle was raised mainstream LDS. She's been indoctrinated too. With the exception of plural marriage, those in the mainstream LDS church believe pretty much the same way. The only change Janelle has made is her belief in plural marriage, and really, for a thinking person, it's not too much of a stretch, since the practice was once part of the mainstream LDS church.
DeleteThat is what I have the hardest time with. Why would you work towards the goal of being with your mean, overbearing sister wives on your own planet when you can't stand them here on earth? Sounds like hell to me.
ReplyDeleteI am having a hard time with the stuff that I've learned on here. I have been trying to keep an open mind about different religions. Because we all have a right to believe what we want as well as who is to say that Christianity is the one true religion. This is the reason why I don't post about the religion so I don't offend anyone. I guess I won't worry about it anymore as this religion aren't that fond of "Gentiles" anyway. But this religion is really messed up. I know all religions have problems. But I don't see ONE good thing about any of it.
ReplyDeleteFootupkodysass
DeleteThey, too, are Gentiles. Gentiles are anyone who isn't Jewish.
If Joseph Smith had lived in the 20th century, he would have written science fiction to make money instead of using his charisma to start a religion to support his family. Magic does have it's appeal in all the religions I know about. Keeping folks ignorant, intimidated and isolated seems to perpetuate even the most "far out" craziness. I was just reading some of Warren Jeffs' pronouncements and couldn't help but wonder that none of the folks in the FLDS would utter the word schizophrenia out loud to the media!
DeleteThe fundamentalist prophets, bishops or whatever they call themselves seem to be enormous toads in small puddles preaching to the gullible!
So a modern-day Smith would be a lot like a certain Sci-Fi writer who started a religion which seems to appeal to people for whom an over-inflated ego is almost a job requirement. Considering that apotheosis is one of the central doctrines of Mormonism, there is a certain similarity with that famously litigious church, which shall remain nameless. nudge, nudge, wink, wink.
DeleteP.S.: Hope I'm not being too vague here, but as I said, they're famously litigious.
bored--- you talking about lds being law suit happy? You're going to have to spell it out a little more clearly for me. :)
DeleteActually, I was referring to Scientology. LDS just excommunicate truculent members, I don't think they sue people too much.
DeleteAnon 12:18 pm. Yes, I know. but they refer to non Mormons as gentiles. It must be like the Amish calling all non Amish "English".
DeleteI figured it out just a little while ago Bored-now! I was reading about scientology--how the main guy's wife is missing and one article said the cult is "very litigous". I was like OH THATS WHAT THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT. Crazy. It's an even deeper level of crazy than the AUB/FLDS and I thought they were as nutty as it got. sheesh.
DeleteOn the Janelle comment that she would do it again 100 times over, I think she was really thinking about her great kids - Logan, Madison, Hunter, etc. are the best of the bunch and I think she is really proud of them. And they are the product of this strange relationship she has with Kody. Of course, she was enthusiastic - if she said, no, I wouldn't do it again, how would the kids feel? Janelle loves her immediate family and puts up with the rest to keep it together. However, I do think she should leave - she can still have the kids without the Kodster.
ReplyDeleteShe loves those kids. They are her all. While they ARE the product of the Kody Freak Show, they are basically the product of her as a single mom and the absence of Kody. He is NOT involved whatsoever with their lives or with the parenting... And for most of their lives, I am sure Kody HARDLY spend time at Janelles... once a week, tops, me thinks. So basically they are what they are because of her and and absent crazy dad. But hey, there are TONS of kids raised by single mothers with absent weird wacko dads.
DeleteThat's a good point, Anonymous 5:01. Any time in my life when things were really, really bad, I always wound up thinking I'd go through again it to have my children. Janelle's kids are really smart, and funny and personable. They obviously didn't get there because of Asshat. I do wish Janelle and Christine would muster the self-esteem to refuse to tolerate the abuse.
DeleteIf you think about all the bad things that have happened in the world (ie: 9-11, wars, plane hijacking, abused women) it almost if not always come back to religious beliefs.
ReplyDeleteIntellectual knowledge does NOT equate to common sense. These women are obviously not allowed to use their own common sense sadly.
Love her!
ReplyDeleteI lot of people here seem to be asking themselves how Janelle could ever have become involved with the AUB. I think the reason is that she was raised LDS and truly believed in her religion. Personally, I can't get my head around how intelligent people can buy into a religion started by a man who was, for all intents and purposes, a convicted con man (he skipped out of court before sentencing, if I recall), but it seems millions of people do. The thing is that if you believe in the Mormon religion, you almost HAVE to believe in polygamy. It's just a conclusion you come to if you think it through. Janelle would have studied her scripture and come to that logical conclusion. Religious belief is extremely hard to shake, in particular Mormonism, I think. The LDS Church encourages its member not to seek out and/or discount anything that disagrees with Mormon teachings. Plus there's the whole 'perfect obedience' thing. Put it all together and it makes a terrifying kind of sense.
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely, bored-now - you've hit the nail on the head.
DeleteThanks, ex AUB. Especially coming from you, that really means a lot to me.
DeleteI agree bored_now, except for one thing. I don't think the BOM teaches plural marriage. Actually, I think there's a verse or two condeming it which just goes to show how charismatic Joseph Smith jr. must have been to pull the whole plural marriage thing off.
Deletepolygamy is not in the BoM but it is in the Doctrine and Covenants Section 132. It's written by Joseph Smith and he tells Emma he was threatened by an angel with a sword to follow the practice and she's condemned to hell if she doesn't.
DeleteAnd, if her family is LDS, one or two generations back, they were basically "FLDS" and I am working on that now...
ReplyDeleteThat is what I'm wondering M.S. If The Mormons supposedly outlawed polygamy do they still believe in it. Or let me guess Someone had a vision and they were told to stop it right around the time they wanted to become a state?
DeleteYou know, a really good question to help everyone understand this mess. I believe that LDS now DO NOT believe in Polygamy and try to distance themselves from it. LDS also believe that they may be called Mormon, and all others may not, although, truth be told, the AUB, FLDS, etc., actually are following the true teachings of Joseph Smith, so (all of this IMO) to me, they are the Marmons just as the LDS are.
DeleteI agree b/c I think I've read where people commented that the only thing they disagree on is polygamy. I have also seen on here where commentors that are LDS actually get offended when you call FLDS or AUB Mormons. http://mormon.org/faq/practice-of-polygamy/
DeleteListen, I am having Troy Bowles, an excellent source for polygamy, ex AUB, come and answers any questions soon. this would be a brilliant on to ask him! He can definatly give us more insight.
DeleteMister Sister - i can very well tell you that mainstream mormons most definitely DO still believe in polygamy in the afterlife. It's still in Section 132 D & C and 3 of their top Quorum of 12 are all current polygamists for the next life. How that happens is their first wives have each died and those 3 men have each re-married and been sealed for time and ALL ETERNITY to their second wives - the exact same sealing they have with their first wives. Their second wives know for a fact that they have a FIRST WIFE sister wife waiting for them in the next life.
DeleteAlso, the second wives of these apostles cannot already be sealed to another man. they're either never married or divorced w/a temple divorce if they were sealed to their first husband. they cannot be sealed for time and all eternity to another man otherwise. only the men can be sealed to two different women while he's alive.
I'm not conjecturing nor confused about this. this is how it works in mainstream mormonism.
She was asking about the LDS in the here and now on earth.
DeleteThey believe in the afterlife, but not on earth. MS was correct.
DeleteHowever, you are correct that, they do in the afterlife, so in a way, they are totally as messed up. Why believe both ways?
sorry, MS, but i just read her question literally as "do they still believe in it" and was just answering that yes, they do. they just don't practice it now because of the law but they certainly do remarry in real life based on the practice of it and the belief they will all be together in the next life cause they performed the polygamous sealing ceremony here on earth.
DeleteI probably should have actually addressed the answer to her and not you specifically. I just took your words literally as well in that they do not BELIEVE in it now as opposed that they don't PRACTICE it now.
sometimes it's so much easier to have these conversations easier in real life over our quickly typed and kinda confusing ones! ;')
Anon, 10:15 pm. ok, I understand now. I know all religions have to update with the times and become more modern or no one would follow them. Yes I was wondering how the Mormon's got around the banning of slavery. OOps! I meant polygamy. but you answered my question. thank you!
Deleteyou're welcome!
DeleteAll that's been said about polygamy and the mainstream Mormon church is right.
DeleteThere's another off-shoot of the church that never practiced plural marriage, and that's the RLDS (can't remember what the R stands for). When Joseph Smith jr. was killed, his oldest son became the prophet of this church and his mother (Joseph Smith's first wife) joined this church. She never believed in or (willingly)practiced plural marriage.
I am watching http://www.cultureunplugged.com/play/4688/Damned-to-Heaven right now, very eye opening and sad.
ReplyDeletei watched that one a year or so ago. it's a good one! DAMNED to heaven is an ironic but true way of describing the lifestyle!!
DeleteFor $4.29 I thought, ok, I'll bite, and downloaded the darned 50 years book. Only scanned it and not impressed. Seems these women just can't do without men. Even when they leave they have to have another to go to pronto. OK, a lot of women do, but really after so long it seems you'd enjoy being alone a little bit. They are all totally introspective as well, not a pretty trait.
ReplyDeleteI just finished it last night. I wound up being irritated with Sopie/Kristen, myself, for the very reasons you mention, BC. It was attention-grabbing in the opening chapters, but became so very tiresome. I stopped feeling sorry for her about half-way through, and wound up disliking just about everyone in her story. Just one more polygamous train wreck. And to think I was halfway through The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo when I decided to finish this one. I think I like Salander more than most of these women! LOL
DeleteI'm not going to fault a woman who gets out of a longterm plyg marriage finally and then turns around and is able to find love and remarry. I don't automatically label that as "they have to have another man pronto." nor label that as a Plyg escapee truism.
DeleteWhen you've read as many stories as I have from these women, most of them DO NOT do what you just said they all do. ( been reading for almost 10 years now.) Most of them go years without remarrying or never do. But I'm all for the ones who actually ARE able to find love for the first time in their lives and have that to help in their continued journey of completely healing from their past.
In Sophie/Kristen's case, and in her narrative, SHE certainly comes across as extremely self-absorbed. I don't begrudge the woman love and happiness, but through the course of the book, she became so annoying I couldn't really sympathize with her. Every religion, especially in this country, has people defect every day. If a woman knows that her children are being abused or neglected, I can't muster a lot of sympathy for one who keeps making the same sophomoric excuses over and over again for staying.
DeleteSo forgive me for being unsympathetic, but I'm also annoyed that she has been a burden to the taxpayer. It's a recurrent theme, and my own personal pet peeve. My husband spent a hellish year in Iraq and just retired after 40 years of military service. He's been away on holidays, during funerals, and nearly blown up. We paid for the educations and health care for my children, as well as everything else we've needed. So yes, I resent the gross irresponsibility that certainly seems to be so prevalent in these groups.
I have a hard time judging anyone who experienced the horrible childhood sexual/physical/emotional abuse this woman did. I think we sometimes don't fully understand how that kills you inside, literally murders your childhood innocence and sense of safety and changes who you are or could have been as an adult.
Deletepure luck of the draw that none of us were born into that situation and have to deal w/it our whole lives let alone be judged by those who don't understand it because they didn't experience it.
We can thank our judges and other elected officials for not enforcing the plyg law and allowing plygs to be the burden of the taxpayers to begin with. there's enough blame to go around for all. it's also a system that's been created that can be clearly taken advantage of for sure. The plygs themselves don't have a corner on that market by any means. I'm against welfare abuse, too. But i don't blame the victims who never had a choice to be born into this lifestyle for the huge mess of it all (financially and emotionally) when/if they are able to leave it.
DeleteThanks to your husband for his service. Mine has served as well. The difference is tho that they got to choose to do that. ;')
"I think we sometimes don't fully understand how that kills you inside, literally murders your childhood innocence and sense of safety and changes who you are or could have been as an adult."
DeleteHear Hear and well said! The victims often do not even realize the effect it has had on them until years after escaping the abuse. If it is all they have known, then they have no basis for a "normal" world view.
Imagine trying to navigate the real world when all you have known your whole life is institutional abuse and subjugation of Fundamentalist Mormon Polygamy.
@NachoMamma I would love to see Kody and Meri try to court Salander! Meri would be more than just a little bit in love. Then, Lisbeth (using a nail gun) would affix Kody's balls permanently to the bed, make a smart-ass comment and leave. Logan, Meri and Hunter watch her walk out with their tongues hanging out. Janelle is in the background this entire episode doing meditation yoga and repeating "finite resources" as her mantra. Robyn designs jewelry for baby Sol. Madison says "Woo, itsn't it, like, dangerous to give a baby small things they could choke on." Robyn says "but it's tied around his neck. How can that be a problem?" Christine pats her on top the head. Then, we watch Christine secretly throw Truley's sisterwives necklace in the trash.
Deletedrdawnffl, THAT is funny, and such wonderful imagery!
DeleteHere is an excellent website by Kim Taylor who grew up in the LeBaron group;
ReplyDeletewww.justonewife.com
Verlan LeBaron's second wife Irene has given a great interview regarding polygamy on this site.
Kim also has written a good book regarding the group entitled Daughters of Zion, My Family's Conversion to Polygamy
Interesting. thanks for posting.
DeleteJust saw a tweet pic on Kody's twitter: Their book, Becoming Sisterwives is #1 in New York Best Sellers.
ReplyDeleteKody changed his Twitter profile pic to just himself & has some serious Kodylocks going on...lol (got that from someone here on SWB:D ) I noticed that Kody learned a new wor: Gratitude Since he's over using it on twitter. I figure he picked it up from @Thanks, which tweets all about Appreciation & Gratitude. I imagine we'll be hearing him say it in future couch therapy/chats.
Too funny!
DeleteIt's Kristyn, not Kristen- in her case at least. (I don't like either spellings nor the name itself, but just wanted to point that out)
ReplyDeleteHas the short film documentary "Sister Wife" been discussed and what happened to the woman in that film? How she left the sect after the film? She and her biological sister were both married to the same man.
I have posted this book/interview on my blog: www.stoppolygamy.com and have ordered a hard copy of the book both to read and for my library. My congratulations to Kristyn and all those who have made their way out of polygamy. Brainwashing of this type from birth is very, very hard to overcome.
ReplyDeleteI'm sure Kristyn's book is very informative but what disturbs me about the one interview I saw her do is that she said she believes "consenting adults" should still be free to pursue a polygamous lifestyle. I find that position quite disturbing, since there is no evidence what-so-ever that decriminalization stops the abuses always present in polygamy. In fact, like most things that are decriminalized, the behavior is encouraged and there ends up being more of the behavior, not less. For instance 80% of Afghan women say they want polygamy banned and punished. It is a terrible shame that some survivors do not have the courage to make a real stand against this barbaric practice, even though they have lived it personally and therefore know for a fact that it is terribly destructive to the human beings who are trapped within it.
ReplyDeleteBoots! I always love it when your posts are on here. I hope they post some of yours on here soon, I thought they said they were. Always LOVE your point of view, it clarifies it for all of us. If she still thinks polygamy is ok, you just saved me from reading her book. please come here and clarify more. Us posters are just trying to figure all this out.
DeleteAlso Boots, please tell us what you think of the DOJ going in, I believe there's a post on here onit.
DeleteCould someone list the different sects besides the A.U.B. and F.L.D.S? or at least the ones close to them?
ReplyDeleteHoly cow, there are/have been over 100 splinter groups. Who knew? I know the AUB and the FLDS used to be the same group at one time. One of the earliest splits was over polygamy. After Joseph Smith jr's death, his son and first wife left the mainstream church and founded the Reorganized Latter Day Saints. The reason for the break was polygamy. The RLDS rejected polygamy. Here's a list of all the different groups.http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1994515/posts
DeleteSounds like everyone is just making up their own. AUB only split from FLDS 50 years ago--
DeleteBothersome that she lived through the cult, yet she says polygamy is ok for those who want it. I guess some things are hard to get out of your head.
ReplyDeleteProud of anyone that gets out - no matter what!
ReplyDelete