In 2011, the Sister Wives Blog started out as a place to talk about the TLC reality show "Sister Wives", Kody Brown and his wives Christine, Robyn, Meri and Janelle. Today we not only discuss the show, we discuss Polygamy in our society, and the public perceptions of the Mormon Religion. We discuss "Polygamy USA" and will be covering "My 5 Wives."
This blog is geared towards the adult reader, so please, no one under the age of 18 years. Thank you!
Are we going to get to find out what Kollene's choice of charity is? I am holding out on buying one (for her, to give away) till I know where my money will go.
Coalition of Sound Choices has this information on their website to explain what their mission is: Mission Sound Choices Coalition is a partnership of organizations and individuals uniting in an effort to end human rights violation due to polygamy and other forms of patriarchal abuse.
I'm glad she finally did a rebuttal of one of the silly Sister Wives episodes. I've watched her before, interviewing other people who have escaped those groups, and found her to be very empathetic, informed, and logical.
On a side note: while watching this I suddenly had this thought... Why do the wannabe-surfer's "wives" stick with him? I mean they are obviously obsessed with getting attention and (like the host said) have an ingrained victim-mentality. I would think it would be second nature to leave him and write a tell-all. Getting to go on daytime television and cry and get sympathy would be so alluring. I wonder which one will break first...
Once their show is canceled and the money train is gone ( I guess that is where their money comes from anyway) I think we'll see Janelle leave. It already looks like she has 1 foot out the door. I'm not sure Christine or Robyn are strong enough, and I doubt Mary will ever give him up. She's the only one that's really even married to him.
no way do i see Janelle leaving again after the show's cancelled and they go back to broke. she came back years ago due to her kids all missing their siblings and she returned with lowered expectations re:the "joys' of plyg sisterhood at that point. however, she does drink the Kody Kool-aid and seems to find his Peter Pan persona endearing. she also doesn't thrive on the tv fame train as do her drama queen sister wives do as well as drama king Kody does.
i think when the money is gone, Robyn will leave. She has less invested emotionally, and will try to find someone else to pay for her Victoria's Secret addiction.
It was very interesting to see Doris mentioned several large-chunk quotations on her program... They were directly taken from this blog!
1. "Willy Steed , from the FLDS community grabbed my heart when he emotionally talked about hating his life in polygamy, being beat by his father, watching siblings get beat and yelled at, being taken from school at age 8 to work for money to contribute to Warren Jeffs, of watching young boys get hurt and killed on jobs that were completely un-safe for them."
This was DIRECTLY taken from the SWB post "View From an Audience Member of the UNLV Debate *Sister Wives Exclusive."
2. "I explained how the Canadian government was so liberal, they legalized same-sex marriage in 2004, and they legalized prostitution in 2012, but when the Supreme Court of British Columbia sought to overturn the ban on polygamy, after reviewing “the most comprehensive judicial record on polygamy ever produced in the history of the world,” Chief Justice Bauman declared that there was inherently too much harm to justify legalizing polygamy."
This was from the post "Christine Marie and her thoughts about the UNLV Panel with "Kody Brown Family"
I wish they would stop saying that. We did not legalize prostitution in 2012. We legalized the hiring of support staff for brothels. It's not even close to the same thing. We're not Amsterdam.
It is interesting how the Brown family gets so defensive about being attacked, but yet thinks nothing of attacking others! They came really close to making fools out of themselves during the panel discussion. Christine and her "fear" of her aunt was ridiculous, and for her to say her aunt hates her family was insulting to say the least. Her aunt doesn't "hate" her family, that was very obvious.
They are only persecuted in their own minds. I'd say living in Las Vegas in mini-mansions with their jewelry being show cased in a casino, and nobody with any visible job outside the home, does not constitue a "persecuted" family!
They need to get over themselves! They are in this now for the celebrity status they think they have.
They seem very good at attacking. Not very good at following their own advice. They seem to feel the need to always put down others, so I have no problem saying what I think here.
Thanks for posting this, Mister Sister. I stopped watching Sister Wives before the season ended, so I never saw the UNLV show. It was interesting to view some clips that had been commented upon by the Kocielas, Kristyn, Kollene, Christine, Willy, and the many posters here. I am glad that I stopped watching SW, however, b/c I could really feel my blood pressure mounting--particularly after listening to and watching Kody, Christine, and the arrogant, camera-hungry Chin.
How interesting it is that the Browns were unable to articulate WHY they practice polygamy, and that the answer to the audience member's question had to be supplied by Kristyn Decker after some awkward time had elapsed.
I am sorry about that, I will ask Doris if she can maybe add that to her programs. I will watch the comments and then write out anything else that was pertinent that Doris discussed to help you.
I'll help as I watch. Doris explains that TLC asked for the debate, not the school which the Browns stated on numerous occasions during the episode. Doris explains that the anti polygamists were very nice and that the Browns were very mean towards them to the point of bullying. Ambush, Noise, etc., all setting themselves up for the fake persecution.
What I love about Doris is that she has a way of getting to the truth and pushing forward with so much more than I can see from her being from a polygamist background. She's right in saying the Browns were much more prejudiced towards the anti polygamists than visa versa. So many negative words thrown out, ambush, hate, none of which was seen. it almost feels as though the Browns think if they say it 3 times, it comes true. Fascinating!
Many points from this episode seemed to have come from our little blog here. that makes me feel proud, even though most of the time I am just a reader. I have to think that Doris did some research here.
That TLC orchestrated this sham of a discussion, is reprehensible. But the IQ challenged Brown's act as though they really had to be convinced to participate....."that nasty unlv making us vulnerable victim's again!"
Shame on them for once again being so covert about another situational puppet-show. Is this not their job? I would think that if TLC tells them to jump.....they really only ought to ask 'how high.'
Giltee Guilt, it's not at all unusual for a Mormon to not know the doctrines of their religion. You'd be dumbfounded if you knew what Joseph Smith and his successors taught! From what I've gathered, didn't Kody's parents accept 'the principle' as it's called while he was on his 2 year mission? I think he studied up on it when he got back, and accepted it as well. I would be surprised if any of them knew what Section 132 of Doctrines and Covenants say about it well enough to be able to defend it.
Like everyone else, I find it hilarious how TLC sets up these stupid situations so the Browns can be presecuted for their religious practices. If they could just keep their mouths shut, no one would know they were pligs. And if Kody didn't make it a point to tell everyone he meets that he has 4 wives, I doubt anyone would care. They're the ones who make sure as many people as possible know, so what do they expect when people think they're crazy?
Doris does a good job on her show. I've watched other episodes on youtube.
There is this show on youtube called ''heart of the matter'' with shawn mccolloum. (I think that's his name. Anyway, its a call-in/debate show that shows how many mormons haven't even cracked open the book of mormon, let alone the christian bible. So many things are whitewashed, contradicted, and flat out denied. Sometimes people see mormonsim as they want to see it.
Don't bet on the polyg mormons not knowing Sect 132. It may be the ONLY section they do know. The mainstream mormons who claim not to understand the principle are doing their "sacred duty" to protect the principle from the gentiles. Read any ex mormon blog for about ten minutes and you'll see dozens of escapees blatantly explaining how they were taught that lying to protect the sacred was not only acceptable, but an obligation of the faithful.
I was just checking out the page view at the bottom left. 8,060,437 is quite remarkable. Do we get to have a party when we get to 10,000,000? Mister Sister, this blog is growing by leaps and bounds and I love all the new information that comes forth. We could call it Polygamy 101 or Polygamy for Dummies. You could put all your posts in a book and sell it.
In reply to Anon Oct 3 2:18... "The Brown's think if they say it 3 times, it comes true." I can see Wannabe Surfer boy saying it now: Beetlejuice! Beetlejuice! Beetlejuice!
I wish there were "like" buttons to push on the comments...there are so many good ones! I absolutely loved this episode...especially when she defended Kollene. I can't not state how much Robyn's behavior irked me. And it really seems like(intentional or not) that the anti-plyg panelists became punching bags for the Browns. And then the Browns acted like victims! I'm so glad Doris did the show and set the record straight.
I absolutely agreed with Doris' comment about how Meri (and the other wives' have said similar comments) said that it was liberating to not have your husband with you every night in your bed. Doris remarked what a sad reflection to say about your marriage. In monogamy you have the joy of your spouse everyday and every night. Christine has said in the past, "I didn't want all the work of a monogamous marriage." What? How is monogamy more work than polygamy?
Yea I totally agree. It's not just about the sex part. I certainly don't feel like having sex everyday either lol.
But it's nice to be able to roll over and cuddle each other, or I know my husbands loves to have his back rubbed. Or another thought, I am pregnant right now and if the baby is kicking at 2am I can just reach out, grab my hubby's hand and he can feel it too. Every night of the week that can happen!
Christine's view about "I didn't want all the work of a monogamous marriage" is like my colleague who had an affair with a married man and she always said, "I don't want my own husband. That's way too much work." One night I said to her, "how do you know how much work it is or isn't...you are not nor have you ever been married and if you keep sleeping with a married man, it is doubtful you will ever get married..or at least to him."
After reading 5 books on polygamy, and just having finished 'The Witness Wore Red' about an hour ago, I am convinced that "keeping sweet" is so deeply ingrained in these women, they feel terrible remorse and failure if they become sad, jealous, or needy.
I really wish that Meri, Janelle, and Christine could each experience the loving support of a fully-present spouse/partner-in-life every night. Why did I not include Sobbyn? Well, it's b/c Kody is already @ her beck and call.
If her marriage is the polygamous example it is less work because it is less of a marriage. A REAL marriage takes a lot work. She and Kody don't do the work as a married couple should and it shows. It is all on her to keep sweet and keep him happy as he flits about like Peter Pan from house to house avoiding true marital and parental work in every relationship.
Well, I just had a thought. I too wondered what on earth Christine could mean when she said that a Monogamous Marriage was too much work. Hmmm. Huh?
Well, the only men in the polygamous world seem to be self-centered, self righteous, egotistical, maniacal, misogynistic, narcissistic turds. So yes, trying to have a monogamous relationship with a man like this would be hard work, and probably a nightmare.
In the real world, where men and women choose one P*A*R*T*N*E*R, men work with women to make a marriage work. They are true partners in the needs of the family, the needs of the children, and the needs of their wives. So Christine and Meri (who just loves to sleep alone! Maybe Kody snores or farts) have NO idea what a monogamous relationship is supposed to be, they just don't have quality role models. Christine and Meri grew up in this insanity, so naturally it is her "norm". Kody grew up in a monogamous world and so he has zero role models for how a polygamous man makes it work. That's probably why he bungled the first years of their "marriages" so much. He's an ass with no empathy. To him the wives are supposed to make it work, and he just makes babies. He is the future God and all.
In the end they are comparing a plural marriage and a real marriage when it's more like comparing apples and ground beef!!!
Doris is with Earl Erskine, former LDS. She begins by discussing how TLC iniated the debate, not the UNLV campus as the Browns said many times on the show. she talks about the invited guests, Willy, Kristyn, and Christine. There is a clip shown of how many times they were being ambushed , Kody saying that "the loudest noise coming from our culture are those that have left and are antagonistic towards it." they discuss how this would make sense. Doris shows how the Browns were almost bullying and predujuiced to the guests, who showed no hatred or anomisity towrd the Browns. A clip is then shown of how christine is talking about how Kristyn Decker, her aunt, hates her family, and goes right to a clip where Kristyn can't wait to see Christine B. Doris discusses how Christine B had no reason to fear Kristyn Decker. Doris discusses how TLC arranged this and the Browns could have vetoed at any time any of the guests, leaving her to wonder if all this wasn't hype for the show. Doris states she too was told by someone that they were told "this is the Brown show" and that the other side didn't have much of a chance. Doris brings up an excellent point. She'd like to ask Christine Brown a question. why did she demean Kristyn not being pro polygamy. if Christine Brown had been abused like Kristyn was, Doris hopes that she would get out of it and then she would speak out against her abuse, as Kristyn has. otherwise, how will change ever take effect? On the contrary, the Browns seem to use abuses within polygamy to justify polygamy within their own lives. Kristyn was told in advance not to use the name of the group that she came from, which ironically is the same group the Browns are from. Kristyn was sexually and emotionally abused and so were her sisters in the AUB Allred group. Kristn said nothing about the Browns, although they said plenty about her. Willy Steed - clip of Willy discussing his abuse. Doris discusses how very little of what Willy said actually made it onto the episode leaving her wondering if they were just too uncomfortable with what Willy said. She then quotes Kollene on what she said on video here, how the Browns started attacking them while they were telling their stories. Doris wonders if they didn't allow his story in so as to not reflect on themselves some of the bad stories of the FLDS. willy was shortchanged. Clip of kody saying abuses happen everywhere. Doris states that if god had commanded polygamy it would be a better, happier, safer, more joyful way of life. Doris says that comparing abuses with polygamy isn't valid. Doris then discusses how the Canadian court kept polygamy illegal because of the inheret damage of abuse to women and children. (For more on this, please see the post on Christine Marie where she lists specific pages to go to) Doris asks: Where else can you find a religion that forces women to share there husband as a condition to get to heaven? Force child brides to do the same? Their religion forces them to live in the confines of communial living and threads that outside of their community that everyone is evil with intent of doing them harm. If polygamy were right, the results would be better not worse. So, Doris states, kody's remarks are totally without merit.
Christine was afraid of having to own her prior false public statement re: Jeffs and his plyg men when she stated that "I never knew men could be such bastards!" when it's CRYSTAL CLEAR she's very well aware of all the bastard acting men in her own AUB family! Also, wouldn't we love to hear from her own mama why she divorced Christine's dad and left polygamy herself ... oh yes!
yeah, me, too! she actually used to post here a little bit a couple of years ago. but i know she's EXTREMELY busy fighting the good fight against polygamy in her state.
Doris makes a good point. where is polygamy mandated elsewhere? Muslim religion does not. Kody doesn't care if you are or not because he thinks he is a chosen one. Good thing many other religions want all others to be loved and cared for too.
Good point, Anon 10.22! In Islam, a man may have up to four wives at one time, but there are conditions. It is not mandated, and it has no bearing on salvation. The man MUST treat all of his wives exactly equally. That means, if he buys a house for one wife, he has to buy exactly the same kind of house for each wife. If he buys anything for one wife, he has to buy it for every wife. Muslim men are expected to consider whether they can support additional wives or children before they marry additional wives. They don't expect the wives to share one house. In practice this means that only the very rich and the very poor practise polygamy. The very rich can afford to support multiple families. The very poor tend to send their wives out to work as domestics and live off their wives' wages.
Also, in islam, four wives rule was a limitation, not an allowance to marry MORE wives. Previous to the koranic law, men had free reign to marry as many wives as they wanted. For example, Saudi men continue to serially marry "divorcing" in name only, because it is deeply engrained in their culture. That is not the case in most Arabic cultures, however. MOST muslims are disgusted by polygamy. It was purely cultural, not religious in the SE (desert arab) history. That' why polygamy remains unpopular in the Levant.
The Browns can say "Oh, they are just haters," or "they just don't like the show." but they have no argument when Doris speaks. she is very well informed and speaks so softly. If you really listen to her words, she slaps Kody and wives right in the mouth. She makes them out to be liars which they are. she also reminds us that they are outlaws too!!
Doris Hanson reminds me of an old school quintessential southern woman who can tell you in flowery words and a smile on her face you can go straight to hell and you thank her and can't wait to rush home and get your bags packed to go there!! LOL
(i know she's not from the south but she IS from SOUTHERN Utah. :P)
It is disgusting that Utah and Arizona choose to tolerate and ignore polygamy. It is illegal and there is so much evidence of abuse. Another example of women and children really don't count in this patriarchal state! Polygamists should be prosecuted. They have no right to raise their families on Medicaid, WIC and foodstamps because "Fathers" DO NOT take care of their families.
If it were legalized, abuse of government would be worse.
It is evident that Christine is severely depressed. I am sure she is afraid to have a one on one with Krysten. She is close to a major breakdown. And Kody and Sobbin continue to bully her. My heart hurts for her.
I'm with you, Anon 11:50. Christine is in a precarious position, mental health wise. She was raised to believe that their version of polygamy is superior to others' versions. She has swallowed the lie that the FLDS is evil, but the AUB is righteous. Of course she's a volunteer for the lifestyle. She was programmed into it from infancy. She doesn't know that she's basically imprisoned by these fairy tales.
Christine absolutely believes that her lifestyle is wonderful, despite the fact that she feels so sad. She parrots happy words by rote. When in doubt, she criticises monogamists as inferior. She chirps about help with childcare and not having to put up with a husband 7 nights a week... but deep inside, where she cannot afford to look, she is lonelier than a lifer in solitary confinement.
The problem with people in this position is that, if a millimetre of their wall of faith crumbles, they are in a psychiatric emergency. Christine can hang on to the lies that support her life, without threatening the integrity of her personality. She keeps sweet, doesn't dwell on negative things; writes affirmations; she tries to celebrate Joseph Smith's birthday even though nobody else in the family cares. To you and me it looks like stupidity for Christine to stay in this purgatory. For Christine it is the core of her faith that in order to be saved she has to endure this and smile about it. Christine's entire reason for being is invested in the false claims of the cult she was raised in. If she questions anything at all, there is a risk that this edifice of her belief will explode. She is nothing without this group. She has no identity apart from them. If she questions them, she is questioning her very existence. That's as dangerous as it gets.
Kristen, Kollene, Willy et al are natural targets for people in Christine's position. They are the apostates and good polygamists must shun them.
Cults get a lot of mileage out of shunning. For a start, they get to identify their enemy. They can name Kristen and others, and say, they are evil; they have gone to the dark side; we are still pure, but to remain pure, we have to shun them.
This puts the focus on the enemy. In fact they place so much emphasis on the alleged sins of the enemy, there's no time or energy left to look at your friends. The whole theological edifice is reduced to us versus them. Christine has been raised in this system. She has been in meetings where defectors were labelled tools of satan. She knows these defectors are dangerous, out to trick you into leaving. So she cannot afford to even look at them, let alone speak to them.
This strategy reinforces the group. Christine cannot afford to think anything different. Imagine what would happen if she discovered that she has been fed a diet of lies her whole life; that God doesn't require her to live that awful life; that God values her so much, that He sent Jesus to die for her sins, as He did for mine. Imagine what would happen if she realised that there is nothing she can do to earn God's salvation. It is a free gift.
No wonder Christine is in such a bind. This is why Doris Hanson's work is so important. The testimony of the people who have left that lifestyle is vital. People coming out of this nightmare need all these people who have walked that road before them. That's why their leaders go to such extreme lengths to prevent such contact.
I used to believe that christine didn't have that many options when it came to her leaving. Then I found out that her mother and aunt left, and obviosly they haven't gone to hell. And she would have someone to stay with and possibly help babysit while she acuires job skills and saves money. I just feel angry and sad that she has so little confidence and is so brainwashed. She's an imprisoned slave and feels she just has to take it. :(
An imprisoned slave in her own four-story house and more money than she's ever seen before in her life. She has clothes, cars, and a life of relative leisure. I'd be willing to bet she even has a cleaning lady at this point, so that she doesn't have to clean the whole house by herself. Pardon me if I don't exactly feel sorry for her. Her relationship sucks, but the rest of her life is quite luxurious these days.
I think that Christine truly believes that she risks eternal damnation if she leaves. I also think that she believes that she can't do it on her own. Remember the trouble she had paying her own bills and keeping that straight. She also could not pursue being a real estate agent because she didn't want to put in the hard work and hours and figure out the child care. Anon 12:16 has it right, she has more material possessions than she has ever had and is willing to put up with a sucky relationship. She probably believes that all men are like Kody and the other men she has known through her polygamist upbringing.
I commented on this show a few threads ago when MS reminded us that it was due to air. I did watch it live that night and was impressed as always with Doris's smooth, genteel style. It is well worth the time to go back in the archives of her show and watch other episodes. Doris has a quiet dignity and she has irrefutable first hand knowledge which, when she speaks, just oozes credibility. Her show and her mission is hopefully helping scores of trapped souls to consider escaping the abuse. She and her guests also consistently make the effort to inform and educate the public to the urgency of the situation.
If the Meredith Vierra interview with Elizabeth Smart reruns (or you can find it on-line) seek it out. It was excellent and I was reminded again that her twisted kidnapper performed a "marriage ceremony" to make her his wife before raping her and that he attempted (but failed) to kidnap her young cousin and make her his third wife. The words polygamy or plural marriage were not mentioned in the interview - but it seems pretty clear that this evil man probably was influenced by polygamy. It is disgusting that Utah and other states allow it to flourish unchecked. The "lifestyle" is ripe for abuse of all sorts.
The big unspoken about all that during that interview was what several people had said during the time she was gone: "Some renegade Mormon kidnapped her into polygamy." Sadly, that turned out to be true.
I totally agree. Doris would not mention this blog if she didn't read and respect the work done here. This is a very legitimate blog, and i was more than thrilled that the blog was mentioned.
Are we going to get to find out what Kollene's choice of charity is? I am holding out on buying one (for her, to give away) till I know where my money will go.
ReplyDeleteYes, it was stated on the show that the proceeds are being given to Kristyn Decker's "Sound Choices" coalition.
DeleteShe chose the Coalition of Sound Choices.
ReplyDeleteMy hubby ordered my T-shirt a few hours ago, since today is last day to order. Ends @midnight.
DeleteVery interesing, and Sister Wives Blog mentioned, yeah!!
ReplyDeleteCoalition of Sound Choices has this information on their website to explain what their mission is: Mission
ReplyDeleteSound Choices Coalition is a partnership of organizations and individuals uniting in an effort to end human rights violation due to polygamy and other forms of patriarchal abuse.
Hope this helps you Anon. It's a great charity.
I'm glad she finally did a rebuttal of one of the silly Sister Wives episodes. I've watched her before, interviewing other people who have escaped those groups, and found her to be very empathetic, informed, and logical.
ReplyDeleteOn a side note: while watching this I suddenly had this thought... Why do the wannabe-surfer's "wives" stick with him? I mean they are obviously obsessed with getting attention and (like the host said) have an ingrained victim-mentality. I would think it would be second nature to leave him and write a tell-all. Getting to go on daytime television and cry and get sympathy would be so alluring. I wonder which one will break first...
Maybe they should have a few sessions with Kate Gosslin on how to milk a situation.
DeleteOnce their show is canceled and the money train is gone ( I guess that is where their money comes from anyway) I think we'll see Janelle leave. It already looks like she has 1 foot out the door. I'm not sure Christine or Robyn are strong enough, and I doubt Mary will ever give him up. She's the only one that's really even married to him.
Deleteno way do i see Janelle leaving again after the show's cancelled and they go back to broke. she came back years ago due to her kids all missing their siblings and she returned with lowered expectations re:the "joys' of plyg sisterhood at that point. however, she does drink the Kody Kool-aid and seems to find his Peter Pan persona endearing. she also doesn't thrive on the tv fame train as do her drama queen sister wives do as well as drama king Kody does.
Deletei think when the money is gone, Robyn will leave. She has less invested emotionally, and will try to find someone else to pay for her Victoria's Secret addiction.
DeleteI wish Doris had been on the panel at UNLV with them.
ReplyDeleteHa! YES!!! :-)
DeleteThat would be awesome!!
DeleteGood stuff! Love the SWB link shown!
ReplyDeleteIt was very interesting to see Doris mentioned several large-chunk quotations on her program... They were directly taken from this blog!
ReplyDelete1. "Willy Steed , from the FLDS community grabbed my heart when he emotionally talked about hating his life in polygamy, being beat by his father, watching siblings get beat and yelled at, being taken from school at age 8 to work for money to contribute to Warren Jeffs, of watching young boys get hurt and killed on jobs that were completely un-safe for them."
This was DIRECTLY taken from the SWB post "View From an Audience Member of the UNLV Debate *Sister Wives Exclusive."
2. "I explained how the Canadian government was so liberal, they legalized same-sex marriage in 2004, and they legalized prostitution in 2012, but when the Supreme Court of British Columbia sought to overturn the ban on polygamy, after reviewing “the most comprehensive judicial record on polygamy ever produced in the history of the world,” Chief Justice Bauman declared that there was inherently too much harm to justify legalizing polygamy."
This was from the post "Christine Marie and her thoughts about the UNLV Panel with "Kody Brown Family"
I wish they would stop saying that. We did not legalize prostitution in 2012. We legalized the hiring of support staff for brothels. It's not even close to the same thing. We're not Amsterdam.
DeleteAnd how is that different? Curious. Isn't a brothel for prostitution?
Delete@ anon 11:10: agreeeeed
DeleteIt is interesting how the Brown family gets so defensive about being attacked, but yet thinks nothing of attacking others! They came really close to making fools out of themselves during the panel discussion.
ReplyDeleteChristine and her "fear" of her aunt was ridiculous, and for her to say her aunt hates her family was insulting to say the least. Her aunt doesn't "hate" her family, that was very obvious.
They are only persecuted in their own minds. I'd say living in Las Vegas in mini-mansions with their jewelry being show cased in a casino, and nobody with any visible job outside the home, does not constitue a "persecuted" family!
They need to get over themselves! They are in this now for the celebrity status they think they have.
They seem very good at attacking. Not very good at following their own advice. They seem to feel the need to always put down others, so I have no problem saying what I think here.
DeleteThanks for posting this, Mister Sister. I stopped watching Sister Wives before the season ended, so I never saw the UNLV show. It was interesting to view some clips that had been commented upon by the Kocielas, Kristyn, Kollene, Christine, Willy, and the many posters here. I am glad that I stopped watching SW, however, b/c I could really feel my blood pressure mounting--particularly after listening to and watching Kody, Christine, and the arrogant, camera-hungry Chin.
ReplyDeleteHow interesting it is that the Browns were unable to articulate WHY they practice polygamy, and that the answer to the audience member's question had to be supplied by Kristyn Decker after some awkward time had elapsed.
Doris Hanson and her co-host did a great job!
I love that Doris starts out with...does anyone have the copyright to "Sister Wives"
ReplyDeleteMe too :) Great expose...
Deletethis was an excellent episode of What Love is This? First i must say I too was thrilled to see Sister Wives Blog mentioned. Yeah!
ReplyDeleteDarn, no Closed Captioning for the hearing impaired. Again.
ReplyDeleteI am sorry about that, I will ask Doris if she can maybe add that to her programs. I will watch the comments and then write out anything else that was pertinent that Doris discussed to help you.
DeleteI'll help as I watch.
DeleteDoris explains that TLC asked for the debate, not the school which the Browns stated on numerous occasions during the episode.
Doris explains that the anti polygamists were very nice and that the Browns were very mean towards them to the point of bullying. Ambush, Noise, etc., all setting themselves up for the fake persecution.
I rely on CC as well.
Deletekaren, I am rewatching now, and writing it out as I am watching. Hope to have it up in a bit!
Deletei use CC too.
DeleteThat is so gracious of you Mister Sister :)
DeleteWhat I love about Doris is that she has a way of getting to the truth and pushing forward with so much more than I can see from her being from a polygamist background. She's right in saying the Browns were much more prejudiced towards the anti polygamists than visa versa. So many negative words thrown out, ambush, hate, none of which was seen. it almost feels as though the Browns think if they say it 3 times, it comes true. Fascinating!
ReplyDeleteRobyn was a real hot mess--crying as she tried to bully a brave, vulnerable teenager.
DeleteMany points from this episode seemed to have come from our little blog here. that makes me feel proud, even though most of the time I am just a reader. I have to think that Doris did some research here.
ReplyDeleteThat TLC orchestrated this sham of a discussion, is reprehensible. But the IQ challenged Brown's act as though they really had to be convinced to participate....."that nasty unlv making us vulnerable victim's again!"
ReplyDeleteShame on them for once again being so covert about another situational puppet-show. Is this not their job?
I would think that if TLC tells them to jump.....they really only ought to ask 'how high.'
Best Quote of the Week! Doris was discussing Kody's argument of how "there is abuse in monogamy, in other religions, in other cultures etc...."
ReplyDelete"Since when does one dysfunction validate another?"
Go Doris!
I agree with you Rose. that was awesome!
DeleteGiltee Guilt, it's not at all unusual for a Mormon to not know the doctrines of their religion. You'd be dumbfounded if you knew what Joseph Smith and his successors taught! From what I've gathered, didn't Kody's parents accept 'the principle' as it's called while he was on his 2 year mission? I think he studied up on it when he got back, and accepted it as well. I would be surprised if any of them knew what Section 132 of Doctrines and Covenants say about it well enough to be able to defend it.
ReplyDeleteLike everyone else, I find it hilarious how TLC sets up these stupid situations so the Browns can be presecuted for their religious practices. If they could just keep their mouths shut, no one would know they were pligs. And if Kody didn't make it a point to tell everyone he meets that he has 4 wives, I doubt anyone would care. They're the ones who make sure as many people as possible know, so what do they expect when people think they're crazy?
Doris does a good job on her show. I've watched other episodes on youtube.
There is this show on youtube called ''heart of the matter'' with shawn mccolloum. (I think that's his name. Anyway, its a call-in/debate show that shows how many mormons haven't even cracked open the book of mormon, let alone the christian bible. So many things are whitewashed, contradicted, and flat out denied. Sometimes people see mormonsim as they want to see it.
DeleteDon't bet on the polyg mormons not knowing Sect 132. It may be the ONLY section they do know. The mainstream mormons who claim not to understand the principle are doing their "sacred duty" to protect the principle from the gentiles. Read any ex mormon blog for about ten minutes and you'll see dozens of escapees blatantly explaining how they were taught that lying to protect the sacred was not only acceptable, but an obligation of the faithful.
DeleteI was just checking out the page view at the bottom left. 8,060,437 is quite remarkable. Do we get to have a party when we get to 10,000,000? Mister Sister, this blog is growing by leaps and bounds and I love all the new information that comes forth. We could call it Polygamy 101 or Polygamy for Dummies. You could put all your posts in a book and sell it.
ReplyDeleteThanks for posting this...I loved listening to this woman review the episode and offer her own insight!
ReplyDeleteIn reply to Anon Oct 3 2:18... "The Brown's think if they say it 3 times, it comes true."
ReplyDeleteI can see Wannabe Surfer boy saying it now: Beetlejuice! Beetlejuice! Beetlejuice!
Hahaha!! :D
Delete"Wannabe Surfer Boy" ha ha... yep if it's said three times that Validates me!
Deletedj
I wish there were "like" buttons to push on the comments...there are so many good ones! I absolutely loved this episode...especially when she defended Kollene. I can't not state how much Robyn's behavior irked me. And it really seems like(intentional or not) that the anti-plyg panelists became punching bags for the Browns. And then the Browns acted like victims! I'm so glad Doris did the show and set the record straight.
ReplyDeleteI absolutely agreed with Doris' comment about how Meri (and the other wives' have said similar comments) said that it was liberating to not have your husband with you every night in your bed. Doris remarked what a sad reflection to say about your marriage. In monogamy you have the joy of your spouse everyday and every night. Christine has said in the past, "I didn't want all the work of a monogamous marriage." What? How is monogamy more work than polygamy?
ReplyDeleteYea I totally agree. It's not just about the sex part. I certainly don't feel like having sex everyday either lol.
DeleteBut it's nice to be able to roll over and cuddle each other, or I know my husbands loves to have his back rubbed. Or another thought, I am pregnant right now and if the baby is kicking at 2am I can just reach out, grab my hubby's hand and he can feel it too. Every night of the week that can happen!
Christine's view about "I didn't want all the work of a monogamous marriage" is like my colleague who had an affair with a married man and she always said, "I don't want my own husband. That's way too much work." One night I said to her, "how do you know how much work it is or isn't...you are not nor have you ever been married and if you keep sleeping with a married man, it is doubtful you will ever get married..or at least to him."
DeleteAfter reading 5 books on polygamy, and just having finished 'The Witness Wore Red' about an hour ago, I am convinced that "keeping sweet" is so deeply ingrained in these women, they feel terrible remorse and failure if they become sad, jealous, or needy.
DeleteI really wish that Meri, Janelle, and Christine could each experience the loving support of a fully-present spouse/partner-in-life every night. Why did I not include Sobbyn? Well, it's b/c Kody is already @ her beck and call.
If her marriage is the polygamous example it is less work because it is less of a marriage. A REAL marriage takes a lot work. She and Kody don't do the work as a married couple should and it shows. It is all on her to keep sweet and keep him happy as he flits about like Peter Pan from house to house avoiding true marital and parental work in every relationship.
Delete- KT
Well, I just had a thought. I too wondered what on earth Christine could mean when she said that a Monogamous Marriage was too much work. Hmmm. Huh?
ReplyDeleteWell, the only men in the polygamous world seem to be self-centered, self righteous, egotistical, maniacal, misogynistic, narcissistic turds. So yes, trying to have a monogamous relationship with a man like this would be hard work, and probably a nightmare.
In the real world, where men and women choose one P*A*R*T*N*E*R, men work with women to make a marriage work. They are true partners in the needs of the family, the needs of the children, and the needs of their wives. So Christine and Meri (who just loves to sleep alone! Maybe Kody snores or farts) have NO idea what a monogamous relationship is supposed to be, they just don't have quality role models. Christine and Meri grew up in this insanity, so naturally it is her "norm". Kody grew up in a monogamous world and so he has zero role models for how a polygamous man makes it work. That's probably why he bungled the first years of their "marriages" so much. He's an ass with no empathy. To him the wives are supposed to make it work, and he just makes babies. He is the future God and all.
In the end they are comparing a plural marriage and a real marriage when it's more like comparing apples and ground beef!!!
Here's part one of what Doris talked about:
ReplyDeleteDoris is with Earl Erskine, former LDS.
She begins by discussing how TLC iniated the debate, not the UNLV campus as the Browns said many times on the show. she talks about the invited guests, Willy, Kristyn, and Christine.
There is a clip shown of how many times they were being ambushed , Kody saying that "the loudest noise coming from our culture are those that have left and are antagonistic towards it." they discuss how this would make sense.
Doris shows how the Browns were almost bullying and predujuiced to the guests, who showed no hatred or anomisity towrd the Browns.
A clip is then shown of how christine is talking about how Kristyn Decker, her aunt, hates her family, and goes right to a clip where Kristyn can't wait to see Christine B.
Doris discusses how Christine B had no reason to fear Kristyn Decker. Doris discusses how TLC arranged this and the Browns could have vetoed at any time any of the guests, leaving her to wonder if all this wasn't hype for the show.
Doris states she too was told by someone that they were told "this is the Brown show" and that the other side didn't have much of a chance.
Doris brings up an excellent point.
She'd like to ask Christine Brown a question. why did she demean Kristyn not being pro polygamy. if Christine Brown had been abused like Kristyn was, Doris hopes that she would get out of it and then she would speak out against her abuse, as Kristyn has. otherwise, how will change ever take effect?
On the contrary, the Browns seem to use abuses within polygamy to justify polygamy within their own lives. Kristyn was told in advance not to use the name of the group that she came from, which ironically is the same group the Browns are from. Kristyn was sexually and emotionally abused and so were her sisters in the AUB Allred group. Kristn said nothing about the Browns, although they said plenty about her.
Willy Steed - clip of Willy discussing his abuse. Doris discusses how very little of what Willy said actually made it onto the episode leaving her wondering if they were just too uncomfortable with what Willy said. She then quotes Kollene on what she said on video here, how the Browns started attacking them while they were telling their stories. Doris wonders if they didn't allow his story in so as to not reflect on themselves some of the bad stories of the FLDS. willy was shortchanged.
Clip of kody saying abuses happen everywhere.
Doris states that if god had commanded polygamy it would be a better, happier, safer, more joyful way of life. Doris says that comparing abuses with polygamy isn't valid.
Doris then discusses how the Canadian court kept polygamy illegal because of the inheret damage of abuse to women and children. (For more on this, please see the post on Christine Marie where she lists specific pages to go to)
Doris asks: Where else can you find a religion that forces women to share there husband as a condition to get to heaven? Force child brides to do the same? Their religion forces them to live in the confines of communial living and threads that outside of their community that everyone is evil with intent of doing them harm. If polygamy were right, the results would be better not worse. So, Doris states, kody's remarks are totally without merit.
thanks so much I will watch for part 2.
DeleteChristine was afraid of having to own her prior false public statement re: Jeffs and his plyg men when she stated that "I never knew men could be such bastards!" when it's CRYSTAL CLEAR she's very well aware of all the bastard acting men in her own AUB family! Also, wouldn't we love to hear from her own mama why she divorced Christine's dad and left polygamy herself ... oh yes!
DeleteOr to perhaps ask Christine's mom about her step brother's raping Kristyn in Christines grandmother's house, as she (KD) wrote about in the book.
DeleteDoris is awesome. I'm a big fan and have been for awhile.
ReplyDeleteyeah, me, too! she actually used to post here a little bit a couple of years ago. but i know she's EXTREMELY busy fighting the good fight against polygamy in her state.
DeleteDoris makes a good point. where is polygamy mandated elsewhere? Muslim religion does not. Kody doesn't care if you are or not because he thinks he is a chosen one. Good thing many other religions want all others to be loved and cared for too.
ReplyDeleteGood point, Anon 10.22! In Islam, a man may have up to four wives at one time, but there are conditions. It is not mandated, and it has no bearing on salvation. The man MUST treat all of his wives exactly equally. That means, if he buys a house for one wife, he has to buy exactly the same kind of house for each wife. If he buys anything for one wife, he has to buy it for every wife. Muslim men are expected to consider whether they can support additional wives or children before they marry additional wives. They don't expect the wives to share one house. In practice this means that only the very rich and the very poor practise polygamy. The very rich can afford to support multiple families. The very poor tend to send their wives out to work as domestics and live off their wives' wages.
DeleteAlso, in islam, four wives rule was a limitation, not an allowance to marry MORE wives. Previous to the koranic law, men had free reign to marry as many wives as they wanted. For example, Saudi men continue to serially marry "divorcing" in name only, because it is deeply engrained in their culture. That is not the case in most Arabic cultures, however. MOST muslims are disgusted by polygamy. It was purely cultural, not religious in the SE (desert arab) history. That' why polygamy remains unpopular in the Levant.
DeleteI too loved that Sister wives Blog was mentioned, way to go bloggers!
ReplyDeleteThe Browns can say "Oh, they are just haters," or "they just don't like the show." but they have no argument when Doris speaks. she is very well informed and speaks so softly. If you really listen to her words, she slaps Kody and wives right in the mouth. She makes them out to be liars which they are. she also reminds us that they are outlaws too!!
ReplyDeleteDoris Hanson reminds me of an old school quintessential southern woman who can tell you in flowery words and a smile on her face you can go straight to hell and you thank her and can't wait to rush home and get your bags packed to go there!! LOL
Delete(i know she's not from the south but she IS from SOUTHERN Utah. :P)
It is disgusting that Utah and Arizona choose to tolerate and ignore polygamy. It is illegal and there is so much evidence of abuse. Another example of women and children really don't count in this patriarchal state! Polygamists should be prosecuted. They have no right to raise their families on Medicaid, WIC and foodstamps because "Fathers" DO NOT take care of their families.
ReplyDeleteIf it were legalized, abuse of government would be worse.
It is evident that Christine is severely depressed. I am sure she is afraid to have a one on one with Krysten. She is close to a major breakdown. And Kody and Sobbin continue to bully her. My heart hurts for her.
ReplyDeleteI'm with you, Anon 11:50. Christine is in a precarious position, mental health wise. She was raised to believe that their version of polygamy is superior to others' versions. She has swallowed the lie that the FLDS is evil, but the AUB is righteous. Of course she's a volunteer for the lifestyle. She was programmed into it from infancy. She doesn't know that she's basically imprisoned by these fairy tales.
DeleteChristine absolutely believes that her lifestyle is wonderful, despite the fact that she feels so sad. She parrots happy words by rote. When in doubt, she criticises monogamists as inferior. She chirps about help with childcare and not having to put up with a husband 7 nights a week... but deep inside, where she cannot afford to look, she is lonelier than a lifer in solitary confinement.
The problem with people in this position is that, if a millimetre of their wall of faith crumbles, they are in a psychiatric emergency. Christine can hang on to the lies that support her life, without threatening the integrity of her personality. She keeps sweet, doesn't dwell on negative things; writes affirmations; she tries to celebrate Joseph Smith's birthday even though nobody else in the family cares. To you and me it looks like stupidity for Christine to stay in this purgatory. For Christine it is the core of her faith that in order to be saved she has to endure this and smile about it. Christine's entire reason for being is invested in the false claims of the cult she was raised in. If she questions anything at all, there is a risk that this edifice of her belief will explode. She is nothing without this group. She has no identity apart from them. If she questions them, she is questioning her very existence. That's as dangerous as it gets.
Kristen, Kollene, Willy et al are natural targets for people in Christine's position. They are the apostates and good polygamists must shun them.
Cults get a lot of mileage out of shunning. For a start, they get to identify their enemy. They can name Kristen and others, and say, they are evil; they have gone to the dark side; we are still pure, but to remain pure, we have to shun them.
This puts the focus on the enemy. In fact they place so much emphasis on the alleged sins of the enemy, there's no time or energy left to look at your friends. The whole theological edifice is reduced to us versus them. Christine has been raised in this system. She has been in meetings where defectors were labelled tools of satan. She knows these defectors are dangerous, out to trick you into leaving. So she cannot afford to even look at them, let alone speak to them.
This strategy reinforces the group. Christine cannot afford to think anything different. Imagine what would happen if she discovered that she has been fed a diet of lies her whole life; that God doesn't require her to live that awful life; that God values her so much, that He sent Jesus to die for her sins, as He did for mine. Imagine what would happen if she realised that there is nothing she can do to earn God's salvation. It is a free gift.
No wonder Christine is in such a bind. This is why Doris Hanson's work is so important. The testimony of the people who have left that lifestyle is vital. People coming out of this nightmare need all these people who have walked that road before them. That's why their leaders go to such extreme lengths to prevent such contact.
I used to believe that christine didn't have that many options when it came to her leaving. Then I found out that her mother and aunt left, and obviosly they haven't gone to hell. And she would have someone to stay with and possibly help babysit while she acuires job skills and saves money. I just feel angry and sad that she has so little confidence and is so brainwashed. She's an imprisoned slave and feels she just has to take it. :(
ReplyDeleteAn imprisoned slave in her own four-story house and more money than she's ever seen before in her life. She has clothes, cars, and a life of relative leisure. I'd be willing to bet she even has a cleaning lady at this point, so that she doesn't have to clean the whole house by herself. Pardon me if I don't exactly feel sorry for her. Her relationship sucks, but the rest of her life is quite luxurious these days.
DeleteI think that Christine truly believes that she risks eternal damnation if she leaves. I also think that she believes that she can't do it on her own. Remember the trouble she had paying her own bills and keeping that straight. She also could not pursue being a real estate agent because she didn't want to put in the hard work and hours and figure out the child care. Anon 12:16 has it right, she has more material possessions than she has ever had and is willing to put up with a sucky relationship. She probably believes that all men are like Kody and the other men she has known through her polygamist upbringing.
DeleteI commented on this show a few threads ago when MS reminded us that it was due to air.
ReplyDeleteI did watch it live that night and was impressed as always with Doris's smooth, genteel style. It is well worth the time to go back in the archives of her show and watch other episodes.
Doris has a quiet dignity and she has irrefutable first hand knowledge which, when she speaks, just oozes credibility. Her show and her mission is hopefully helping scores of trapped souls to consider escaping the abuse. She and her guests also consistently make the effort to inform and educate the public to the urgency of the situation.
If the Meredith Vierra interview with Elizabeth Smart reruns (or you can find it on-line) seek it out. It was excellent and I was reminded again that her twisted kidnapper performed a "marriage ceremony" to make her his wife before raping her and that he attempted (but failed) to kidnap her young cousin and make her his third wife. The words polygamy or plural marriage were not mentioned in the interview - but it seems pretty clear that this evil man probably was influenced by polygamy. It is disgusting that Utah and other states allow it to flourish unchecked. The "lifestyle" is ripe for abuse of all sorts.
ReplyDeleteThe big unspoken about all that during that interview was what several people had said during the time she was gone: "Some renegade Mormon kidnapped her into polygamy." Sadly, that turned out to be true.
DeleteThank you thank you Mister Sister! I appreciate you :)
ReplyDeleteEarning the Respect of someone like Doris shows what a great blog this is. Cheers!
ReplyDeleteI totally agree. Doris would not mention this blog if she didn't read and respect the work done here. This is a very legitimate blog, and i was more than thrilled that the blog was mentioned.
DeleteThis is the best show I have seen of Doris. so glad to see the blog get recognition, and doing things for a greater cause.
ReplyDelete