Who is Winston Blackmore? a Polygamist who broke from Warren Jeffs and now has the largest group in Canada. He is also a wife collector, having over 24, and more than 121 children. (Interesting Video Below.)
Here's our first report on Winston Blackmore from 2011: http://sisterwivesblog.blogspot.com/2011/08/who-is-winston-blackmore-and-how-is-he.html
The leaders of the breakaway fundamentalist Mormon sect of Bountiful, B.C. have managed to avoid a successful criminal prosecution in all the years since it was founded in the mid-1940s, while openly practising polygamy and despite troubling allegations of forced underage marriages and child sexual exploitation. But that run of luck has ended for Winston Blackmore, its high-profile bishop.
In the end, shades of Al Capone, it was the taxman who did him in—and more trouble may be on the horizon.
In a Federal Tax Court ruling released this week, Justice Diane Campbell rejected Blackmore’s claims that the community of Bountiful, or at least the portion recognizing his leadership, constitutes a communal religious organization eligible for tax exemption. Campbell ruled that Blackmore underreported his income by some $1.8 million during a five-year period starting in 2000, a time when his declared annual income rarely exceeded $30,000. Not only will he have to pay taxes on the higher amount, he faces a penalty of almost $150,000 for hiding his income.
“Although there was no direct evidence that would lead me to conclude that the appellant knowingly made these false statements or omissions in his returns,” Campbell ruled, “there is abundant evidence that supports my conclusion that he ought to have known that he was misrepresenting his income.”
This was not your typical tax court case, to put it mildly.
(Source: Courtesy of Macleans.Ca)
To read the rest, go to: Taxman defeats Winston Blackmore, polygamous leader of Bountiful
And we wondered about Kody getting to all his kiddos school functions! Check out this video!
Click here to watch: The Man with 121 Children and 24 Wives
Winston Blackmore has been fighting this tax problem for some time. Here's our first report on his tax problems back in Jan. 2012.
http://sisterwivesblog.blogspot.com/2012/01/vancouver-sun-will-taxwomen-bring-down.htm
*This is a Topic only Post. Free Discussion Below, Be sure and see Twisted Post Below!
(Sources: Macleans.Ca; National Geographic)
Here's our first report on Winston Blackmore from 2011: http://sisterwivesblog.blogspot.com/2011/08/who-is-winston-blackmore-and-how-is-he.html
Taxman defeats Winston Blackmore, polygamous leader of Bountiful
The leaders of the breakaway fundamentalist Mormon sect of Bountiful, B.C. have managed to avoid a successful criminal prosecution in all the years since it was founded in the mid-1940s, while openly practising polygamy and despite troubling allegations of forced underage marriages and child sexual exploitation. But that run of luck has ended for Winston Blackmore, its high-profile bishop.
In the end, shades of Al Capone, it was the taxman who did him in—and more trouble may be on the horizon.
In a Federal Tax Court ruling released this week, Justice Diane Campbell rejected Blackmore’s claims that the community of Bountiful, or at least the portion recognizing his leadership, constitutes a communal religious organization eligible for tax exemption. Campbell ruled that Blackmore underreported his income by some $1.8 million during a five-year period starting in 2000, a time when his declared annual income rarely exceeded $30,000. Not only will he have to pay taxes on the higher amount, he faces a penalty of almost $150,000 for hiding his income.
“Although there was no direct evidence that would lead me to conclude that the appellant knowingly made these false statements or omissions in his returns,” Campbell ruled, “there is abundant evidence that supports my conclusion that he ought to have known that he was misrepresenting his income.”
This was not your typical tax court case, to put it mildly.
(Source: Courtesy of Macleans.Ca)
To read the rest, go to: Taxman defeats Winston Blackmore, polygamous leader of Bountiful
And we wondered about Kody getting to all his kiddos school functions! Check out this video!
Click here to watch: The Man with 121 Children and 24 Wives
Many people can claim to be from a big family,
but few can match the ever-expanding brood of polygamist Winston
Blackmore. With 121 children, the head of a fundamentalist Mormon
community has amassed his gigantic family with the help of an incredible
24 wives. The Man With 121 Children (And 24 Wives)
goes inside his 500-strong clan in Bountiful, British Columbia to delve
into Blackmore's life and find out how his many wives deal with issues
such as jealously in a plural system of marriage.
Featuring candid interviews with some of Blackmore's wives and children, as well as an in-depth discussion with the many-times-married man himself, the usually secretive community reveals that to them polygamy is as moral a lifestyle as any other, and they're determined to prove this to the world. This theory is based on the belief that having numerous wives and fathering multiple children is the surest route to the higher reaches of Heaven's hierarchy.
With communities such as these attracting huge amounts of rumour, threats of prosecution, and speculation, this programme goes inside the notorious group to reveal life as it really is - in the words of the people who live there.
Inside Bountiful: Polygamy investigation
WOMEN OF BOUNTIFUL BC & POLYGAMY - TMTV - 2009
Featuring candid interviews with some of Blackmore's wives and children, as well as an in-depth discussion with the many-times-married man himself, the usually secretive community reveals that to them polygamy is as moral a lifestyle as any other, and they're determined to prove this to the world. This theory is based on the belief that having numerous wives and fathering multiple children is the surest route to the higher reaches of Heaven's hierarchy.
With communities such as these attracting huge amounts of rumour, threats of prosecution, and speculation, this programme goes inside the notorious group to reveal life as it really is - in the words of the people who live there.
Inside Bountiful: Polygamy investigation
http://sisterwivesblog.blogspot.com/2012/01/vancouver-sun-will-taxwomen-bring-down.htm
*This is a Topic only Post. Free Discussion Below, Be sure and see Twisted Post Below!
(Sources: Macleans.Ca; National Geographic)
Sounds like he won't be wearing that big ole grin much longer!
ReplyDeleteHonestly...what is wrong with those women?? Is that really what they want from life? They live like that because they want to, or at least I am hoping they actually want to, but for the very life of me I don't understand why.
Do they ever read the bible instead of the Book of Morman? There is NOTHING in there that says this is "the way".....Sad
It is very sad and I have study Mormonism and know people that have been to Nauvoo on several occasions and once was told by a woman there that she would rather still have the option of polygamy due to her daughter being older and not married. Who would ever wish this on their children?!?!
DeleteNot Me!
DeleteMarriage gets you into the highest level of heaven.
DeleteYeah, but according to Mormonism, if you're still single when you die you'll have a chance to marry in the afterlife. You don't have to be in a plural marriage to get to that level. So I have no idea why anyone would want that.
DeleteI think it has been published that when Winston was excommunicated by Warren Jeffs from FLDS,Winston gave his wives the choice of staying with FLDS or him. About half of his wives departed so the 24 left are just a fraction of his women. My curiosity is whether the children went with their mothers or stayed in Winston's compound??? I saw a documentary film about Bountiful years ago. In that film, his first wife, who had legally divorced him, was interviewed. She had nothing nice to say about Winston. Evidently, it had taken court action to get him to pay child support and he continued to be delinquent with payments. And LOL, he was just as bitter and had decided to never have another legal wife. Kody has a sizable ego but Winston acts like he's already a god on his celestial planet!
ReplyDelete24 wives is just gluttony.
DeleteI imagine they were married off to the remaining men of the Canadian FLDS or went to Colorado City to be reassigned, depending on citizenship, maybe. I know Fawn Broadbent (one of the Fawns Flora Jessop brought out of Colorado City) has an older sister named Catherine who left Winston when the split happened. There's photo out there taken of Fawn holding the baby her sister had with Winston before Fawn left the FLDS so I imagine her sister at least came home to Colorado City to be reassigned, maybe. I bet you poor Catherine has had a few more rounds of Musical Priesthold Holders since then, mind you. Ugh.
DeleteAnon - I'd really like to see that documentary. Does anyone have a link? So he won't marry again because he doesn't want to be forced to pay child support if there is another divorce? OMG
Delete@ Anonymous 4:25 pm:
DeleteThat is incorrect. Annaleigh is correct: As Annaleigh already wrote Catherine Broadbent left Winston for the FLDS. I believe Marie Steed joined the FLDS for a while as well (she has since left completely and is remarried), but that would still make only two wives, not half of all his wives at the time of the schism. Several wives have divorced Winston in the years since and remarried monogamously. But they all just joined mainstream society, not the FLDS. I know of a wife of one of Winston's brothers however who joined the Canadian FLDS.
When looking at the number of his wives, one needs to also take into account that he married three of his (present) wives only for religious reasons as a favor to them and their families, so that they can join their daughters in heaven. So they do not actually have any form of sexual relationship with him; for these three elderly women it's purely platonic.
On "he never took another legal wife": I doubt that is true, since two of his wives had to marry one another in a lesbian sham marriage in order to avoid deportation. And that was after Jane divorced him.
Here my list of Winston's wives for an overview:
http://politicsrusprinciple.tumblr.com/post/48479793940/wives-and-ex-wives-of-winston-blackmore-i-tried
The film I saw is quite old--at least 20-25 years. Don't know how one would access the archives?? Winston seems to be quite like the patriarch Kimball--"Taking another wife is about the same significance as buying another cow". I'll just bet the report of 120+ children is an underestimation of the actual number!
DeleteThanks politicsrusprinciple, I just found your list a minute ago while trying to find out more on Catherine Broadbent! :) As far as I know, her second husband, Alvin Barlow has managed not to get himself kicked out of the FLDS by Warren...yet, so I suppose that's kind of sort of a positive thing for her.
DeleteKms says"24 wives is just gluttony" Agreed that it's a sure sign of excess! The seven deadly sins are listed as wrath, greed, sloth, pride, lust, envy, and gluttony. I think "lust" is the most apt for a man with 24 concubines.
DeleteI'd go ahead and add "pride" on to that list of sins. Do these people read the actual bible at all? Papa Joe Darger tweeted the difference between moral and value judgments recently as though value judgements are ok. Last time I read it, the Bible did not make that distinction.
DeleteThis just really sounds like adultery to me, which is a sin, lets just call it what it is. The only exception is that the mistresses live together...yuck. and that many children, how in the world does he remember their names or birthdays or even give them the time of day....I did read quite a bit on him from the links provided and he is just one man hiding behind the "religion" which banned the practice 100 years ago. Seems like Canada even though they state is illegal doesn't enforce the law ?
DeleteHow are they going to support the wives and kids after the father is in prison? Are they going to anger and start a gun fight on the compound/farm? The government is more worried about the mess after, likely they will be stuck without husbands and taking orders from him in prison.
DeleteThat video is from the same people that made PolygamyUSA, I am watching it tonight and then will come back to comment. I hope others watch, also.
ReplyDeleteCould be an interesting discussion.
I saw the video you are discussing. It has been quite a while. Some of the women did seem very nice. However, the whole idea of this is just wrong for me. I am quite happy as "queen" of my own castle.
DeleteI think I know which video you are discussing, I'll put it up, and let me know if I am right. thanks folks!
DeleteIf there is another good video, please find it for us and send the link to lovetvreality@gmail.com. thanks!
DeleteThat is the video I saw a year or so ago.
DeleteI wrote an email about some posts and a new show (not the Brady one) a few days ago, but to a different address. I didn't know the lovetvreality one. Shall I resend it?
DeleteI will look for them. We have a post up about the Williams bunch and are excited!
DeleteYes, send all email to sisterwivesblog@aol.com or the one above, thanks!
DeleteIf you have 24 dogs, people would say you're an animal hoarder. So WB must be a wife hoarder. And definitely a child hoarder.
ReplyDeleteI have often thought this about the Duggars. If I had 19 kids, people would be calling the authorities.
DeleteI'm not really familiar with Canadian tax laws, but it seems there should be some serious prison time in addition to the fines for this jerk. And what about the other employees of his company. Will they be charged as well?
ReplyDeleteAll of Blackmore's employees are his sons that are upaid employees.
DeleteHow in the world does he have that many children unless the lives are actively charting their cycles and letting him know when they are fertile so that he can have sex with them. No way they have some static rotation system and babies are hit and miss.
ReplyDeleteThat' s just too awful to factor. I was one who said, who cares what they do with their lives...going to rethink that! My anti-poligamy comes from the awful situations for these kids. They are trying to ride the coattails of the gays. Well, that's an entirely different situation. 2 parents, fine. 25, no no no!
DeleteThey do chart the cycles.
DeleteI believe there will be penalties on top of what he owes in taxes. If he does not pay, the CRA..Revenue Canada...will put caveats on his land and start action to recover their money. I hope they send his sorry butt to jail. The women who are born and bred into this religion are much like the Hutterite women who very rarely leave either. I think they don't have the education or the will to leave and start a life of their own. Their whole life has been cooking, gardening, sewing and all the household chores while the men do the outside work and bring in the money. Hutterites are big into farming and I think Bountiful has construction companies.
ReplyDeleteIt would be interesting to see how he evaded his taxes. If he had a company and paid each wife wages then CRA would question what work did they actually do to earn the wage. Plus he would have had to send in taxes, unemployment and Canada pension for each worker. You can't just pay someone for no work done and they deposit the cheque back into the guy's bank account.
I agree it would be great if he went to jail, but Canada, unlike the US, doesn't impose jail time for tax evasion.
DeleteCanada doesn't impose jail time? Why bother to prosecute? He will find a way out...John Gotti didn't but this guy may. Does he send his kids to college? I'd have a lawyer, Dr, etc!
DeleteThe tax man in Canada (I am Canadian) will start taking assets to cover the outstanding bill, and put a lein against his land. No prison term.
DeleteI am from Canada and can you imagine how big their family allowance would be if you were only claiming 30k in income and you had even 80 kids under the age of 18?? It would be roughly 20k a month!!!
Delete121 children !! That is madness !!
ReplyDeleteA human sperm machine.
But not so madly insane that Winston Blackmore wasn't lucid enough to squirrel over $1.8 million dollars from government eyes, while he never reported anything over $30,000 dollars a year in income.
And the hypocrisy of him to say that Canada's government guarantees freedom to live one's religion, yet he completely disregarded Canada's law that people truthfully report their incomes.
Smug, arrogant, degenerate thief !!!!
Sure does make you wonder how creative Ol Kody has been to the IRS for the last 20 years ??
And yes....the women !! 24 women !!
Some of whom started out producing human livestock for him while still teenagers.
Sad, sad, sad !!!
Maybe that's why the Kodyturd is having church in one of the homes...he is gonna say no taxes...it's a religion.
ReplyDeleteKody and Janelle - hope you are reading this. The IRS does not take kindly to tax fraud either. So I hope you aren't getting bad advice from your CPA. The IRS audits 'home offices' and 'churches' very heavily - so be careful. You might not get hunted down for polygamy but you could very well lose those houses and go to jail over tax fraud. And that isn't persecution for your lifestyle, it's conviction for tax fraud.
ReplyDeleteLove love love this blog, and the snark! Finally felt compelled to create a profile to post about the infamous Blackmores.
ReplyDeleteI am pretty familliar with the Blackmore situation. I have spent my life in neighboring communities and have observed the Bountiful compound, school and other various buildings from the road.
The article is correct; Bountiful is located in Lister, BC and the Blackmore clan indeed own various construction and trucking businesses; JR Blackmore & Sons trucks are often spotted on the road throughout the Kootenay area. I have also seen many "wives" and children in full opression garb shopping at the local Wal-Mart and Superstore in neighboring Cranbrook, BC on numerous occasions.
Canada is a very multicultural and tolerant country, and for the most part, Canadians take pride in certain personal freedoms that come with this status, including religious freedom and gay marriage. However, I feel I speak for most Canadians when I say that we do NOT support the goings-on of the Blackmore clan, and are glad to see some sort of strike being taken against their community.
And honestly, while maybe a little toned-down on the outside, I don't think Kody and the krew are much removed from the FLDS community. From watching the show, but especially after reading the observations of some very astute commenters on this blog. Thanks all! :)
SJW21, we appreciate any knowledge you have on the subject! Thank you for posting and welcome! If you'd like to write a post, just let me know.
DeleteSJW21 - I appreciate hearing your perspective.
DeleteDo you ever hear of the young men leaving the community, being forced out? I hope they are able to find work and start lives for themselves.
@8haron, yes from what I hear it does happen, and as there are several patriarchal Blackmore men, many of those castoff young men are Blackmores. They are often referred to in the media as "Lost Boys".
DeleteMany of them end up in neighboring communities, but navigating society can be difficult. As they are less educated and grew up pretty sheltered it can be tough to get work and deal with being able to exercise their free will. (Imagine that!) It's sad but not unlike many young people who are striking out for the first time.
As the family trees of polygamy are so interwound, they're probably related to some of the Browns. Particularly since young women are traded like chattel between Bountiful and some of the communities in the U.S. in order to get some new-ish DNA in the mix. Actually come to think of it, Winston is related to the Jessops so they definitely have a connection through Robyn, and from what I understand from another post, Christine? And who knows how else.
@ Mister Sister, thanks for your confidence, but I am sure I don't know any more about Bountiful or polygamy than anyone else on this blog - I just happen to have lived near this community my entire life.
DeleteThanks for your answer SJW21. It is hard to imagine what these young men go through, learning how to exercise their free will and feeling so unsure. But good point, most young people will feel this to some degree after graduating school. But most people have some family and friends to bounce ideas off of.
DeleteSJW21 you are fortunate to live in such a beautiful place!
DeleteThe Browns' story lines have been extremely boring lately. They really need some new blood, especially since the older kids are moving on. For next season (if there is a next season) I would like to see Meri, Christine and Robyn all pregnant at the same time. That would be fun. If Meri goes the in vitro route, she may be lucky enough to have triplets, quadruplets, or maybe even sextuplets. That would be a riot watching them all take care of the new baby Browns. If Meri had sextuplets she would have 7 children plus her man child, Kody. Maybe then she would embrace her position as first wife and whip all of the other adults into shape. Kody should be first in line for a good spanking.
ReplyDeleteI agree. Their show has been VERY boring lately. Having 3 wives pregnant at the same time would make for an interesting storyline LOL, but I don't think there's any chance of it ever happening.
DeleteIMO, Meri is too old to bring a healthy pregnancy to term. She's already been told that her eggs are getting old and trying to have a baby at her age would be fraught with problems. I also don't think she really wants to raise another child. I think she's perfectly happy with the empty-nest freedoms of being able to take off when she wants to and not worry about home or child responsibilities.
I think Christine is very done with having more children, too.
But... picturing Meri trying to raise multiples would be hilarious to watch. Her clean home, full of rules and order would be just a memory. I'd love it!!
Anonymous 8:29. Bite your tongue! Can you imagine the real life consequences of a storyline like that. I suspect, that you are speaking in jest. Thta would be fun to watch.
Deleteoh my, the idea of Robyn as the surrogate for quintuplets. They would not be able to selectively remove the extra embryo's so she would have to carry all 5 to term. Meri could have the brood she always dreamed of. All at once. She would get as much baby sitting help as she gave to the other wives, too.
DeleteAnonymous 7:37....with all those children then they could also sell......FRUMPY diaper bags!!!!
DeleteAnonymous 7:37...oh my gosh, could you picture Meri, Robyn, and all of the Browns thrown into an Octomom situation? That would be frightening!
DeleteBlackmore on the two 15 year olds he married - "I had nothing to do with it."
ReplyDeletehahahaha
did everyone catch that?
Yes and I don't buy it for a second. The narrator also said that there are about a dozen grown men in Bountiful, but hundreds of women and children. You don't get to be one of the chosen few men and NOT have some sort of say in what's going on. Especially those being groomed for future leadership. He's lying through his teeth, and that ridiculous smile he thinks is so charming.
DeleteSJW21 I agree with you about the smile, and about the smiles on the faces of the women. It's pretty much like the Kody and Kodettes initial attempts to "normalize" polygamy - "look we're all smiling! Polygamy is wonderful! There's no problem with men sleeping with multiple women. The women are made better human beings through living this! Wonderful, wonderful, happy, happy ..." Yeah!
DeleteThe way Winston tried to dance around the topic of the 30 young women being moved over country lines was ...what are the words?? irritating, gross, odd - ewww! And when she questioned him about his 3 wives being married at 15, ewww, saying he 'had to' or else be excommunicated, he makes himself out to be a wimp, but knows exactly what he is doing. OMG This lifestyle is so hard to comprehend. Oh, and that awful story about the gal, was she 12 or 13 and was supposed to marry the prophet who was 70 years older than her?! So she was sent to Bountiful? Glad she at least moved there, but then she was told she had to marry at the age of 17 - 'that weekend' or would be kicked out? Wow. Just lots of terrible things going on to these kids/women.
ReplyDeleteThat was Teressa Wall Blackmore in the awful story clip. She's a full sister to Elissa Wall (Steed Barlow) and Rebecca (Wall Jeffs) Musser. I guess Warren Jeffs intended for Teressa to join Rebecca and their other full sister Jenny as their sister-wife since Rebecca and Jenny were married to Warren's father at the time. Then when Rulon Jeffs died, Jenny evidently "agreed" (as far as one can agree) to marry Warren but Rebecca escaped and married one of Rulon's Musser grandsons. I read where Sam Brower suggested that Warren's forcing Elissa to marry her cousin (who raped her) was in part a retaliation for Rebecca leaving because Warren really had a thing for Rebecca and wanted to marry her. Who knows, maybe it was also retaliation for Teressa's defiance against him too (who I imagine, if she hadn't fought to avoid marrying Rulon, Warren would have wanted to marry her just as much as he did Rebecca, really pretty girls, those Wall women). Really terrible stuff, indeed.
DeleteThe Browns may not have committed outright tax fraud, but they have surely scammed/exploited the federal food stamp and Medicaid programs. Except for Mariah, all of the Brown kids were born to legally single moms. Therefore, their pre-natal care, births, well baby visits, dentistry, etc. have all been paid by Medicaid. Think of the tens of thousands of dollars the taxpayers have spent financing Kody's fertility and, yes, religion. He makes me sick because he is shameless. Real men feed and provide medical care for their own kids, Kody. They don't ask the taxpayers to do it.
ReplyDeleteThey are single moms. The law doesn't recognize a marriage. Not all single moms are on state programs. Not only single moms are on state programs. Janelles kids probably had health insurance during the time she was working in UT. Most of her living in UT.
DeleteEven if we assume medical care for Janelle's kids back in Utah, we definitely know that these women were on food stamps etc. so the state has been funding polygamy.
DeleteThe state funds seniors, unmarried teens with a child, Monogomous married couples with and without children. Singles with disabilities. More than half of Americans at some point in their life with spend some time getting food assistance.
DeleteIt's impossible to do the calculation for SNAP the entire family could list themselves as a full family and all their income considered they could make more than 10K a month a qualify for some amount of SNAP benefit. There are deductions for part income and housing. It's really complicated. For instance if more than half your income pays for housing you can take off some of your income to make yourself look more in need. Filling out the form should entitle everyone to something for the effort. Gosh. I also left out the three that moved out to college. But there are so many unknowns to their financial picture it's impossible to know for sure how much would give them benefits.
DeleteI have absolutely no problem with those in need getting state help, and certainly don't want children suffering. I also agree that all kinds of people benefit from welfare payments. Even so, it doesn't excuse the attitude of very deliberately having more and more children no matter what, even when the family doesn't have the funds to support them. That definitely equates with expecting the state to fund your religious practices.
DeleteIf you are on welfare then you should not be trying for more children until you get your financial situation sorted. I know families who find themselves in situations where they need help while they struggle, but that is not what the Brown family did and we all know it. Polygamists are taught every trick in the book for "bleeding the beast". It is all about building their kingdom, it is all very selfish and they look out for themselves. It makes me sick to hear Kody talk about how he wants his religious freedom and for the government to let him do his thing, but he was very quick to ask for handouts from that same government when he wanted to spread his seed.
DeleteAnonymous 6:52 p.m. " ... when he wanted to spread his RIGHTEOUS seed." there, i fixed it for ya! ;P
DeleteFinally watched the Q & A tonight and noticed they are using "vulnerable" a lot recently. Is this some important fundamentalist lifestyle skill they are supposed to perfect? I don't remember hearing it much before. Maybe I missed an explanation of this somewhere along the way? They are saying it somewhat reverently.
ReplyDelete"Vulnerable" new word for the day! Have you noticed how they latch on to a word and then overuse it consistently. And very often it's some kind of therapy associated vocabulary. Since it's being used in association with Sobbin' the penitent, it of course deserves reverence.
DeleteDear Friends,
ReplyDeleteDue to some unhealthy issues lately, at some point I will be blocking any proxy use. If you for some reason are using a proxy, you don't need to on this site. Those of you that wonder what a proxy is, it allows ppl to do some coasting on our site using alias', and also clogs our system.
If you don't know what it is, NO WORRIES, you are probably not using one!
If you are, quit. you don't need to here.
thanks! (no discussions on this)
I appreciate that the blog keeps us informed on all polyamy sects, I learn from each one. Off to watch all these great videos.
ReplyDeleteWell, these videos are worth the time. Make Kody and Co seem tame.
ReplyDeleteI have a question about polygamy. The Browns are fundamentalist Mormons (right?) and they have mentioned that their religion was founded/started by Joseph Smith and continued by Brigham Young. My question is why Mormon? Why isn't it something like Joseph's or Brigham's religion or Young or Smith's? (sorry if this is a dumb question)
ReplyDeleteNot for sure. Joseph Smith "created" the Book of Mormon. I'll wait to answer after we see if any ex AUB are out there and read this. Don't want to stick my foot in my mouth!
DeleteIt's not a dumb question, it's an inquisitive one!
"Mormon" started out as an originally derogatory name for a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, based on the church's belief in the Book of Mormon. Over time, the church members themselves adopted the word and called themselves "Mormons" as well as LDS (Latter-day Saints). Some years ago the LDS Church tried to eradicate the word from members' vocabulary, and from public and media references to the church. However, at the same time, they have also issued frequent statements that "Mormon" shouldn't be used in connection with any other group - probably because they are trying to avoid any association in people's minds between the LDS church and the polygamist groups such as the FLDS, the Kingstons, and AUB who refer to themselves as "Mormon Fundamentalists."
DeleteActually BY wasn't the only one who continued the religion. BY took folks west. But Emma and kids went east. The polygamists broke with the BY part of the church.
DeleteAccording to one of my high school besties who was LDS back then, the word Mormon is from Moroni (Morani?) which is the name of the Angel Joseph Smith said translated the round metal tablets...
DeleteEmma helped found the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and claimed that Joseph Smith had never taught or practiced polygamy. Poor woman, what a hell she went through in polygamy!
DeleteIt is called the "Book of Morman" because the angel Moroni revealed if to Joseph Smith. Not sure if the spelling of the angels name.
DeleteAs a Mormon, LDS, let me clear this up. The Book of Mormon is named after the prophet who complied the records that are the scriptures the Book of Mormon. His name is Mormon. The Book of Mormon is a collection of smaller records like the Bible, which is also scripture. So, people called the followers of Joseph Smith Mormons after the book. Modern day members are not offended by the term, however, we do not want to be cast with the same dye as fundamentalists.
DeleteThank you for the clarification! I appreciate you explaining it for us. Please post more and help us understand!
DeleteTo me, calling FLDS people (and AUB, and all those different branches) "Fundamentalist Mormons" is kind of like calling Protestants "Fundamentalist Catholics." In both cases, they're two completely different faiths. In both cases, one church broke off from the other because of disagreements about fundamental doctrines and because they didn't believe the leadership of the original church had the proper authority. So, they broke off and practiced what they believed - not what the original church believed.
DeleteThough close in nicknames - "Mormons" vs. "Fundamentalist Mormons" - the two religions are very different.
Thank you for explaining. I actually am understanding better now.
Deletewhen you study the true history of the mormon church's beginnings (the unvarnished history and not the correlated whitewashed history the average mainstream mormon receives from their powers that be) you will quickly understand that if Joseph Smith were to return - he would definitely recognize the FLDS as the church he started (minus the warren jeffs pedophile part as Joseph Smith drew the line at 14 or 15 year old pubescent minors and no little boys sex) over the mainstream mormonism who has strayed very far from both his and BY's teachings. Teachings that they declared eternal and were NEVER to change! This is why all these various fundie sects all claim that the mainstream mormon church is in apostasy. They use the same scriptures as the mainstream church but adhere to them as Smith and Young directed them to do always.
DeleteI've been amazed time and time again at how little the average mainstream mormon knows about their own history - and really doesn't WANT or feel the need to know.
I have also seen a documentary on Winston and all can say is sick, sick, sick. I don't care if you have 2 wives or 24. It is all abuse!
ReplyDeleteTotally agree with you kristie!
DeleteI live in British Columbia, Canada and am very aware of this situation, as I have friends who live in the area close to Bountiful. These wives and children are all on Canadian welfare and food stamps, except for the one wife he is legally married to under Canadian law. Blackmore runs and successfull logging operation. He has his sons as unpaid employees. They are allowed to stay in the group until they become a nuisance to him. So he does not pay them a wage and therefore makes more profit. The women have large gardens and you can see them in the fields tending to the cops.
ReplyDeleteThis is totally a "nut bar" religious cult and everyone knows it.
If this was what it took to get to heaven, my perception of God as a merciful, loving father is upside down. There is no way this creep can be a good husband, father, or man. How this bunch thinks he is somehow worthy of the highest level of Heaven is a mystery I don't even want to try to understand.
ReplyDeleteI had never heard of Winston, but after watching the videos posted on here, he sure doesn't seem like he really has any affiliation with the women except to impregnant them. And my question is always the same.......what do women get out of this??? Do they really believe this lifestyle will get them to some celestial level of heaven?? Do they ever read anything besides the Book of Morman?
ReplyDeleteThe Book of Mormon doesn't promote polygamy. In fact, in this chapter (Jacob 2) - http://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/jacob/2?lang=eng - God specifically commands the people to only have one wife, and calls the people wicked for having more than one. He also says, "Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me."
DeleteMainstream is right, the Book of Mormon does say those things, which is in direct contradiction to another book of LDS scripture - the Doctrine and Covenants which is mainly "revelations" to Joseph Smith. Does anyone see the contradiction between ""Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me." and Doctrine and Covenants 132:38 "38 David also received many wives and concubines, and also Solomon and Moses my servants, as also many others of my servants, from the beginning of creation until this time; and in nothing did they sin save in those things which they received not of me." The Doctrine and Covenants, as well as early Mormon leaders teachings, is Mormon Fundamentalists' justification for polygamy. `
Deleteex AUB, I always appreciate hearing your point of view. I used to be mainstream Mormon, taking the missionary discussions when I was 19. When I asked about polygamy then, I was told the usual lines about the men marrying poor widows in order to help them take care of their children, and that most were only for convenience sake, and not physical relationships. They made it sound almost noble, that it was only for a specific time period during a time of need, and that it is not something the church practices now. That's the line until you're baptized, and then other things come out more, as that a lot of LDS accept that polygamy will be practiced in the afterlife, and some do even go as far as to say you can't reach the celestial kingdom (highest degree of heaven) without plural marriage. Then reading other LDS history, not necessarily endorsed by the Church, I learned more and more about how Joseph Smith and Brigham Young practiced polygamy, and it definitely did not seem to be for noble, spiritual reasons. I finally decided that there was just no way that the Heavenly Father I knew loved his daughters any less than his sons. This is what polygamy boils down to, no matter how it's rationalized. Why would a Father who loved his daughters want them to go through such pain?
DeleteI agree Twinsmom. It's hard to believe in a God like that. I love my LDS friends, but the history of polygamy is far from what most members are told, and certainly there is definitely the belief that polygamy is a part of the after life - that's why men in the LDS church can be sealed to second and subsequent wives (as long as the previous one has passed away). Early leaders in the Mormon church certainly taught that polygamy was an absolute essential for exaltation - that's why many fundamentalist polygamists are doing what they do.
Deleteplural marriage that's required for your eternal exaltation (which is the highest kingdom - the celestial kingdom) is spelled out in their doctrine and convenants 132. that's where Joseph Smith claims he was threatened by an angel with a drawn sword if he didn't practice it and where he informs Emma that she will be damned to hell for eternity if she doesn't accept the practice herself. quite the mindf**k really.
DeleteDoes anyone know what the other levels of heaven are? I dont recall seeing any posts on them - just interested to know what the differences are - might shed some light on why these women choose to live like this.
DeleteThat is a great question. I'll make sure some experts come answer it - anyone here know? check back!
DeleteThere are "three degrees of glory" in the Mormon teachings about heaven. The celestial is the top, and reserved for Mormons only, where they are in the presence of God the Father. The second degree of heaven is the terrestrial kingdom. This is reserved for the "good men of the earth who have been deceived." Basically this is for those who have accepted Christ, but were blind to the the 'one and only true religion,'i.e. Mormonism. They are allowed to see Christ, but not permitted to come into the presence of God the Father. The lowest degree of heaven is the telestial kingdom, which is for liars,adulterers, murderers, etc. They have no access to God the Father or Christ, but are able to experience the Holy Ghost. (The telestial kingdom is still supposedly a wonderful place according to Joseph Smith.) Apart from these "degrees of glory" there is somewhere called "outer darkness" which is where you go as a "son of perdition" (or presumably daughter of perdition) if you knew the 'truth' and turned against it. (Basically this is reserved for Mormons who knew about all the so-called higher laws of God, like polygamy, made covenants in the temple, received the highest temple ordinances available, and turned against those teachings, becoming "an enemy to God"). The teaching is that in outer darkness you have no access to God in any form, and that over a long period of time your soul is dissolved back to "native element" (presumably a very painful process). This means utter destruction so that you no longer exist in any shape or form. It's either the top or the bottom for women in polygamist groups. They will either be exalted in the celestial kingdom as "queens" to their god husbands, or they face the consequences of rejecting polygamy, which Mormon scriptures teach is for these women being destroyed by God.
DeleteObviously a "free choice" for women! And why worry, as long as they are "consenting adults?"
Here is a great article from BYU.
Deletehttps://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Degrees_of_Glory
So is it safe to say....that any one of those women could give birth to a child and if for some horrible event one of the children were to die in her care, then there would probably not be an investigation because there are so many AND nobody really gives a hoot....too many to keep track, so why bother.
ReplyDeleteI mean there are some towns in the US and I'm sure Canada that have a population of 146 people in it, this is just one family!!
THIS IS WRONG!
Ugh. I can't get the videos to play. I did go to YouTube and watched the 16 x 9 show. I21 kids is just crazy. I hate to say this, don't be mean about it, but he did have a nice smile and a certain way about him. That made it all the mire creepy. You know he turns on the charm to get his way. His answer to the human trafficking charges was interesting. He's one scary man.
ReplyDeleteDee from Delaware
I just checked them, folks let me know if anyone else has a problem, they are working for me.
DeleteI know what you mean about him looking ok. Better than a Michael Cawley!!
That's what struck me, he had a certain 'charm' but he would have to, to have married that many women.
DeleteMy Mom also mentioned that Michael Cawley had a creepiness in his eyes, something you can't quite pin point.
i had no problem pinpointing that it is definitely simple creepiness in his eyes. as well as that Warren Jeffs monotone cadence voice.
DeleteHi folks! Any posts about the browns and not comparing them with polygamy, FM; Please post on the post below free discussion. Let's keep this on somewhat on topic. Thank you all!!!
ReplyDeleteNew SISTER WIVES VIDEO BELOW!
ReplyDeleteSo, if we vote for polygamy in the US, this could theoretically happen here? That's scary.
ReplyDeleteI guess your neighbor could have as many wives as he wants. I wonder if the same would hold true for husbands. You just know some radical gal is gonna do it! Now that would be a show I'd watch.
Deletedue to biological differences (monthly periods as well as pregnancies) the reverse can never be the same apples to apples compararison w/polyandry vs. polygyny. and even if you find some women who in spite of that actually WILL step up to the plate and be the only wife w/numerous "monogamous" husband like polygyny you'll find even FEWER men (if any at all) that will settle for that like the sister wives do!!
DeleteAnnaleigh - You have some very interesting points. I have a couple of questions you might be able to answer before I post your post. Please email me at sisterwivesblog@aol.com So we can talk. Thanks!!
ReplyDeleteDid you find my email as well? :) If not I'll resend it to the new address.
DeleteIt has been hectic here! Please send it to the new address. Thanks!
DeleteFrom BC Canada and glad to hear this man has finally been nailed for SOMETHING! Tax reasons, great, whatever they could get him on. Live Polygamy! What do I care? AS LONG as young girls/women are not being exploited/traded like slaves.
ReplyDeleteBut is true Polygamy EVER good for women/girls? Me thinks NOT.
Nail this dude however you can BC and about freaking time!
Here in BC we have what is called the 'Child Tax Credit', for every child you have you get a monthly allowance based on income. If you are low income you receive more. One has to wonder how many thousands of dollars this family is pulling in to support 'single women and their children'. My brother at one time had a low income and was raising his 4 children on his own; he received a decent amount of money at that time. (I cannot remember specifics but just around $1,600 I believe.) Justifiable if you are indeed low income, working and NOT in a religion that encourages huge families for the 'new planet'!
ReplyDeleteBut even without polygamy these women would possibly be in a monogamous relationship with kids being born anyway. Or maybe single with one or two kids. You can't start dictating who gets to have kids and how many.
DeleteIt is not a good idea to tell people under what conditions they can have a baby. The money is giving for the single woman wanting a few children without a husband. Or a same sex couple becoming parents. These women would likely be married to someone or single wanting children. The same number of children would be born. Just not with this father.
DeleteBut the kids would not have to split the father's resources (money and time) 121 ways.
DeleteThis is the 21st century. It is not just up to dad. Some kids don't have a dad at all. Sometimes he is truly unknown sadly from the mom or a sperm donor and has no financial obligation. It is only up to mom.
DeleteThe women whose religion allows them to choose motherhood or not seem to have fewer kids than those whose religion requires them to gave as many as possible. So there probably wouldn't be as many kids born if it weren't for this lifestyle.
DeleteIn any case, it is just irresponsible to purposely have kids you know you can't support. That goes for mothers and fathers.
Have a question, scoop, inside knowledge?
ReplyDelete*WE HAVE A NEW EMAIL ADDRESS: sisterwivesblog@aol.com
Add it to your address book, feel free to email us!
Did I read somewhere that he had 25 wives since this came out? Lord knows how many children!
ReplyDeleteCBSnews--Busting up in Bountiful is an interesting site to google. There is an interesting timeline and interviews. One of the most interesting items to me is that Winston put all the land and businesses, except his own business, in the FLDS trust that the state of Utah took over. Winston was made a trustee when he handed over the assets and then kicked off the board when he and Warren Jeffs fell out. When Utah took over administering the trust Winston wanted back on the board but Utah didn't appoint him. Tax evasion may just be the tip of the iceberg of his shady money practices. Winston seems like a real con man, a characteristic that he shares with Jim Harmston, Warren Jeffs and probably many others. A big smile, an earnest delivery and they walk away with plenty of money and in the case of the fundies, plenty of honey.
DeleteOne of the wives who is interviewed says that she, age 17, and her sister, age 20, were married to Winston on the same day. That evening Winston said something like, "We're in the business of making babies here. Which one of you wants to be first to have sex with me." Neither girl knew Winston before the marriage as they had been sent to Bountiful from the Colorado City/Hillside area. When asked about love in marriage, the wife demurred and didn't really give an answer.
For the women to say "we choose that lifestyle" is not quite true. They were born into it and were told to receive eternal exaltation one must live plural marriage the everlasting covenant. To me it seems fear based if I don't share my husband I can't make it to the celestial kingdom.
ReplyDeleteOn a lighter note...the photo in the post showing several sisterwives in the same dress? Wow! A few questions come to mind, such as;
ReplyDeleteDoes the husband truly find that attractive? My hubby says he could not, ummmm, rise to the occasion? if I were to wear one of those dresses.
If the husband does find that attractive, why does a grown woman dressing like a Holly Hobbie doll turn his crank? Smacks a little of pedophilia to me.
Where in the hell do they find that much matching fabric in all of Canada? Each dress has a least 6 yards, judging by the colossal sleeves and collars alone!
This has to be somewhat humiliating for at least of few of these ladies, right? Sort of like being in a wedding with really ugly matching bridesmaid dresses, except the entire bridal party has to sleep with the lecherous groom.
This is an additional layer of abuse, in my book. On second thought, a dress like that would hide the weight gain and puffiness from absentmindedly eating an entire bag of Fritos while I was catching up on the blog just now.
Well I will go to bed tonight laughing about the ugly bridesmaids dresses and the wedding party sleeping with the lecherous groom. That is why I love reading here.
ReplyDeleteOne year at harvest we had a neighbour boy and also a runaway Hutterite boy helping us. The neighbour boy asked the Hutterite boy if they bought their clothes at Salvation Army...to which the Hutterite boy answered and who took them there, another Hutterite? They also have unique clothing with home sewn long skirts and tops. They only buy certain material with certain patterns and colors and the different sects wear different head scarves. The men wear home sewn black pants and jackets with coloured shirts. They don't use belts but use suspenders instead. Their clothing is more colourful than the pastel colors of the polygamists.
I didn't know they had the same problem in Canada. Is he the only one?
ReplyDeleteI believe he is the main sect. There may be more, however I haven't seen them.
DeleteSo when Smith wrote his very earliest possible revelation on polygamy in 1831, the idea was likely that by appropriating the wives of the less righteous, upstanding saints like Smith and his cohorts could breed out the bad blood:
ReplyDelete[I]t is [Jesus Christ's] will, that in time, ye should take unto you wives of the Lamanites and Nephites [i.e., Native Americans], that their posterity may become white, delightsome, and Just, for even now their females are more virtuous than the gentiles.3
This is VERY GOOD.
http://mollymuses.wordpress.com/2013/09/06/justifying-polygamy-part-2-doctrine/
Interesting.
ReplyDelete