You made it to Saturday! What's on your mind? Anything goes here. Any topic, idea, thought, show, share here!
Just a few notes.
**Huge thank you to those that have helped with the T shirt fund-raiser. I have have some wonderful talks with some new friends, and appreciate the ones that I didn't get to thank personally. It's still going, so if you haven't go today!
**A reminder that on the right of the blog is a link to the Sister Wives TV Episode guide. It comes in very helpful.
**If you haven't already, join the blog. The link to is also at the right, as in how to post and what if my post isn't posted? link.
**Follow us on Twitter, post our links to the blog on facebook, help the get word out!
Just a few notes.
**Huge thank you to those that have helped with the T shirt fund-raiser. I have have some wonderful talks with some new friends, and appreciate the ones that I didn't get to thank personally. It's still going, so if you haven't go today!
**A reminder that on the right of the blog is a link to the Sister Wives TV Episode guide. It comes in very helpful.
**If you haven't already, join the blog. The link to is also at the right, as in how to post and what if my post isn't posted? link.
**Follow us on Twitter, post our links to the blog on facebook, help the get word out!
Ever been a clown at Halloween or played one on TV? have a great costume picture? Send us your picture and we will add them here for fun!
I'm having computer issues so be patient this weekend folks!!
(Photo By Twisted Sister)
I'm tinking that the day Janelle leaves the family all the others will go bankrupt! Heck that lady seems to really support the whole family herself! She will be great of alone without Kody and the other sisterwives. She only brings and brings and brings to the table but gets almost nothing that i can see in return from the family...
ReplyDeleteCirqus
Oh my goodness. Clowns are too funny. Banksy and Mocksy and Yo-Yo.
ReplyDeleteHoot-hoot.
Gordon Setter
Ed and Cara, if you see this, I was wondering if you had read "Under the Banner of Heaven" and what you thought about the book?
ReplyDeleteThat book scared me because for the first time it totally and factually illuminated what the Mormon polygamy cults are capable of doing due to their firm belief that their god can, and is delivering messages to them through another person, their belief in human blood atonement and the absolute right they believe their religion gives them to do what ever they want to women.
And when I heard Janelle say on TV that her religion gives her the right to take another woman's husband no matter what, it was just like she was channeling one of the Lafferty brothers.
Her speech about what her "religion" gives her the "right" to do also reminded me of Satan's 5 "I Will" statements in the Bible.
Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
The Mormon's believe that they will be like God and that they will be God. I feel so sorry for them, that they believe this.
I have not read it... yet... I can do a quick homework on it and get back to you as soon as I know enough to answer some of the questions you may have.
DeleteWe have a book review of that book coming Monday!!
DeleteHello Anon,
DeleteI have read the book.
I found it very disturbing, but look, no matter what religion the Lafferty brothers believed in, they were going to be thought of as whacked-out madmen. They were born crazy, raised crazy, and remained crazy. They were fed by the fundamentalist cult beliefs, including blood atonement, but, they were also violent drunks who were horribly evil men.
As far as Jon's book is concerned, I remember feeling like there was a lot of stuff in it that was difficult to link sometimes. I also remember him getting a lot of flak from mainstream LDS members who said he was inaccurate, but would not explain how when I asked them about it. I sense they were just being defensive.
I tend to look at the book as more of a true crime book than anything, in all honesty. We have a horrendous crime, horrendous criminals, and the background of their lives presented here. In essence, a micro-view of these guys rather than a macro-view of the fundamentalists. As a murder book, I like it. As a book about polygamy and fundamentalist Mormonism, I think there are others with a more rounded story to tell. Jon did a good job, told a good story, but it is narrowly focused.
Just my take.
I own it. It was a good read.
DeleteYou are right about Latter Day Saints believing they will become gods themselves. The LDS people I know/have known are super nice, lovely friends...but I have to agree to disagree with them on this huge doctrinal difference between traditional Christianity and their version of it.
Under the banner of heaven is crazy. Looking forward to the review!
DeleteI read Under the Banner of Heaven by Jon Krakauer. This author also wrote Into the Wild, and Into Thin Air. My understanding is that Mr. Krakauer is a very well respected author, and that he does indepth research for his books. (I may be wrong, as I am not an expert in the field).
DeleteI found Under the Banner of Heaven to be chilling, and I thought it was considered a believable representation of many aspects of Mormon Fundamentalism. I bought a copy of this book to pass on to a friend. I would like to know what other commenters think about whether it is a factual representation, people like Ex Aub, and Boots (who I haven't seen any comments from in months; maybe she changed her name?)
I highly recommend this book, and also Church of Lies by Flora Jessop. I had to take a break in the middle of reading this one, as it is so sad, so graphic, and (I believe) such a true report of one former polygamist's experiences.
JMO
I'm not sure LDS doctrine is more buzzard than other religions, when looked at objectively.
DeleteThe best Polygamy book I've read is Prophet's Prey by Sam Brower.....He has so much inside information!
DeleteI've been wondering this a long time: how would polygamy actually work if it was legal? Has anyone written about that? Using the Browns for example, in the event one leaves or one dies, would all of the others be financially responsible for remaining family children or for each others' debts, as in a two-person marriage? Would each adult be financially responsible for all family children, legally? Who can claim whose Social Security or other pension benefits? Umm, maybe using the under-employed Browns here may not be the best example... If one leaves, can they be awarded or sue for custodial rights to bio-children of other wives, since they are all legally family? There are so many complicated questions!
ReplyDeleteThe Browns appear to be focusing on societal acceptance and decriminalization (though it seems polygamy is already decriminalized by use of loopholes and lack of prosecution), rather than legalization. However, my guess is legalization would be an ultimate goal over time. Has any pro-polygamy or pro-polyamory organization put out anything about how legalization would work? Or does Ed or anyone else here have any comments?
The questions you posed are part of a huge pile that would need to be addressed by the legislature. Many laws would need to be revised and the implications would be widespread. Simply decriminalizing polygamy (not prosecuting the adults involved) is just the tip of the iceberg and something I wonder if the Browns thought about, or if they did, that they cared.
DeleteThat said, imo, they're just the 'face' of this lawsuit, really brought by the AUB and various FLDS sects, and although the organizations may care about the far reaching implications, I doubt the Browns do at all. They're going to do what they want regardless of the laws.
You do make me question something, though. I wonder how, or IF, Janelle, Christine and Robyn have taken legal steps to protect their children if something would happen to them. Without Kody being named on all or certain birth certificates, they could all have a huge legal fight on their hands with regard to child support, custody, etc. Scary thought, but I wouldn't be surprised if they haven't!
I know that I read on here a ways back (from a real attorney) what a legal pile of insanity it would be to have LEGAL polygamy. I think the first thing that popped into my head was how on earth would you word a law to allow a spouse to NOT live polygamy if only one of the couple wished it. If a woman had her man for x amount of years and he just brought home wife #2, would wife #1 have anyway to protect herself?
DeleteIt sounds like the reality of Motherhood in polygamy is separate mothers and children with a man in the center of the wheel. He is the only glue keeping them together as a whole unit. Without the man, the women will go where they fit, or they are happiest (is there any true happiness in this world?). In the closed groups a woman is immediately reassigned to yet another man. Can you imagine 10 wives and 70 children trying to claim death benefits or a piece of an estate after a man's death?
By the sounds of it, within these closed Churches/Groups not even the man has his own clear cut finances. His money is all tied into the church, and he is served his piece of the pie, depending on who likes or dislikes him. Then he turns and must share this piece of pie with all the wives and children in his leg of the family again, depending on who he likes or dislikes. Each Mother then has to share with her children. Trickle down. In the end, the children and women suffer the worst.
That's why they keep saying they want to DEcriminalize it, NOT LEGALize it. They just want the laws off the books that say you can't live with as many unrelated people as you like. If you dig into the laws of the land, many zoning laws etc clearly state how many UNRELATED people can live in any one "single family" dwelling.
In reality Kody had better have a clear written will to allow an even distribution after his death. Without that the law of the land will only recognize Meri and the others are just as we see them, unwed women with children who happen to be neighbors.
If polygamy is legal, the welfare and bleeding of the American Taxpayer will dry up.
Hello Anon,
DeleteI have addressed this elsewhere, but you are correct. The tax code would need revision, inheritance law, parental rights, survivor benefits -- just the tip of the iceberg. However, I don't think the lawsuit is in behalf of the AUB, FLDS, or any other religious sect. I think it was something pushed by TLC, quite frankly, because of the publicity value. As stated previously, the Utah Attorney General John Swallow, and his predecessor Mark Shurtleff, both stated that they would not pursue criminal charges against those who violate Utah's bigamy(polygamy) stature. So, why the dramatic run to Nevada, which also has bigamy statutes? PR and promo for the show.
I think the average taxpayer should be pissed if a person is allowed to marry multiple partners and claim them all as tax deductions. And, if I were an employer, I would also not be too happy having an employee with multiple spouses and a ton of kids that I would have to provide partial (at least) insurance coverage for.
Thank you for your reply Ed.
DeleteThinking the Browns pursued this lawsuit because of pressure from TLC puts a completely different spin on this and is something I hadn't thought of. Interesting.
The contract of "marriage" with the state is a contract between the state and 2 people (let's put a pin in gay marriage for a sec). The benefits and other contractual legalities like insurance, ss, tax deductions are designed for only one beneficiary. The legalize polygamy would change the entire structure of marriage/civil unions. I don't think that's in the cards. But it should be decriminalized. People live together with baby mamas and multiple partners all the time. Just because theysay they are married, even though legally they aren't, shouldn't matter. Lots of people say they are married. But if they are claiming the father of their kids in the life and they cohabitate, I don't see how the state wouldn't pursue him for paternity and financial responsibility...
DeleteBy Utah law, Kody has one wife and one legitimate, biological child and three mistresses and 13 illegitimate, biological children. Before TLC came along, why was Kody not required to pay child support for his and Janelle's and his and Christine's multiple children?
ReplyDelete(I am not disparaging the kids by calling them "illegitimate." I use that term because they are the offspring of single mothers and yet they were created by a father who is not held accountable.)
Hello Anon,
DeleteWell, we don't really know how much Kody pays in supporting his wife, mistresses and children. Child support is a term usually related to what occurs after divorce. Since there is only one marriage, there could only be one divorce. If he is not listed as the father of the other kids on their birth certificate, then he has no legal responsibility.
Child support is paid all the time in non divorce situations because there is a never ending stream of babies being born outside of wedlock but that does not make the parents of yhose cildren any less responsible for those children monetarily. Kody not listed on a birth certificate does not absolve him legally ---- paternity tests can be legally forced by court order----I am an attorney and have worked in family law. Marriage really has little to do with child support----biology is more often the deciding factor. If you are the baby maker---whether male or female---you have a legal support obligation. But it may come down to a matter of enforcement.
DeleteYes MrSpock! And if the mothers don't pursue that's their choice. BUT if they accept public assistance, the state will pursue the father just as you say above, to enforce his $$ obligation and reduce the state's contribution to the family.
DeleteI don't know about Utah, but where I live, men do not pay child support at all if they cohabitate--which these people do. They also do not pay child support unless the mother sues for it, or if there is a mutual agreement outside of court. Since this family has always combined resources, I'm not sure why people are always asking this question. When he and meri declared bankruptcy, he declared many of the children as dependents, which leads me to believe that he also claims a bunch of them on his taxes, which would absolve him of a legal mandate to pay support in any case. Since Jenelle likely does the taxes for the whole group(or an accounting firm that is AUB RELATED, and well practiced in shadow boxing) there is probably no one who knows how they break up dependents. They probably change every year, depending what is most advantageous at the time. Regardless, child support, per se, is not applicable to this situation.
DeleteI wonder how they file their taxes. Does each mother file single, head of household? Does Kody claim all of the kids? How can the mothers claim them and Kody as well,that would be double dipping? If they file as single mothers what happened to the belief that they are truly married? I am confused.
DeleteOh the vulgarity of asking the Brown's how they file taxes! Almost as bad as asking them if Kodush is on the birth certificates...
DeleteThey would receive larger returns by spreading the children out among the four families. As an attorney who used to do tam law as well I sadly have some experience playing this game. For instance, you do not have to be the custodial parent to claim the earned income credit benefit for a child. So, we would run the numbers using various scenarios to figure out which parents claiming how many children would maximize the return. Then we would make that a provision of the divorce decree. I would imagine the Browns do the same thing now when deciding how many children kody claims as dependents/ earned income credit. Also noteworthy is that kody does not have to be on the birth cert to claim either. And Cpa carol, correct me if I'm wrong here but as long as only one person claims the child as a dep, the IRS isn't going to delve too deeply into whether they really meet the definition of a dependent as they relate to kody. They run an exception report (not sure of official term) to make sure kids aren't being double claimed, and that's about the extent of it.
DeleteIt is a beautiful day here! I hope all my SWB friends are having a nice weekend.
ReplyDeleteIt is here, too, Mister Sister. I hope you can get out and enjoy it! You have been working so hard on this blog, so you deserve a break.
DeleteGood morning! I thought those clowns were the Browns!
ReplyDeleteRobyn said she was working and self-supporting before she merged with the Brown family. Where did she work or in which field?
ReplyDeleteOnly if going to the SS office counts as work.....
DeleteGood question, I don't think they ever said. I didn't think she did work outside the home then.
DeleteMaybe in her world "work" consists of shopping at Victoria's Secret. She needed lingerie so she could lure Koduche into her cookie chamber
DeleteIt is a beautiful day here! I hope all my SWB friends are having a nice weekend.
ReplyDeleteI had snow yesterday at my house in northern Utah. With my youngest son off to college this year and my husband traveling for business I guess this is the year that my snowblower and I get to be friends. Maybe I can rent a room for the winter from Meri and we can be empty nester buddies.
DeleteI am enjoying a trip to beautiful Palm Desert, CA. Hubby had to attend a convention here, so I came along for the ride.
DeleteToday was REALLY special. I love "knick-knacks" by Jim Shore. He was at Knott's Berry Farm in Buena Park, signing his pieces. So I drove myself an hour and a half each way to get his signature and had a chance to chat with him and have a picture taken. My Jim Shore Christmas pieces stay out all year long on a shelf over my desk - just because I love them too much to put them away.
I'm doing my whole tree in Santa ornaments this year, so I bought new Jim Shore ornaments for that as well.
:-)
AZChristian... I also love Jim Shore... that big kneeling Santa is so pretty... do you quilt?
Delete~~~ Babs
Do we have anyone that watches the Real Housewives shows?
ReplyDeleteNo...after all the Brown drama I need normal. I watch the Little Couple... it makes me feel better after the Browns.
DeleteI watch Little Couple Duck Dynasty, HBB, and Housewives of Nj. I am a junkie! The RHNJ has gone downhill. I also enjoy shows on flipping houses.
DeleteI do watch a couple of the housewives shows off & on but not "religiously" ;) I like watching VH1 Hollywood Exes occasionally too.
DeleteI watch them but I'm far from an pro about their 'issues', of which there are many. lol
DeleteHahahaha... I am more of a Law and Order, CSI, Criminal Minds sort of person... except... ANYTHING David Tutera does... he is SO FAB!! I want to have a party w/ him and the Browns... just trying to teach them (mainly Sobbin) some etiquette would be worth the trouble... hahahahaha
DeleteLOL Cara,
DeleteWouldn't that be a hoot of a show!
I don't but one of our daughters is hooked. I have seen a few.
DeleteOne thing is for sure, there has been a ton of money spent on Botox, cosmetic surgeries, implants and hair extensions.. LOL
Hmmmm...A whole series...Should polygamy be legalized (God forbid) will we see Kody on 'The Bachelor' to pick out more women, followed by his mistresses appearing on 'Bridezillas' for wedding prep, then David Tutera doing a show on preparing the ceremonies/receptions, then 'Judge Judy' to sort it all out when it goes sour.
DeleteSheesh! Where's 'Seinfeld' when we really need him?
I hate to admit it, but I watch all the Real Housewives shows. I even watch all the weddings. Heck, I expect Kyle & Mauricio to get a divorce next, just so they can have a big, extravagant televised wedding. Of all the women, Nene is my favorite though.
DeleteI'm a reality TV junkie. And not too proud to admit it! I watch Duck Dynasty, SW, Real Housewives of Atlanta, Real Housewives of Miami, the Teen Mom series, Hotel Impossible, Restaurant Impossible, Ink Master, I could go on...lol! And when I say watch, I mean I don't miss a single episode. I love my DVR!
DeleteBut I also love watching the old 60's sitcoms like Hazel and Bachelor Father...I watch them every day. Also LOVE Law & Order: SVU. The BBC drama Call the Midwife and, of course, Downton Abbey.
I'm hooked on Real Housewives of New Jersey and OC. I weaned myself off of Beverly Hills and New York some time ago and am glad. Unfortunately, we are a bit behind on New Jersey in Canada so I see the gossip in the media before the actual episodes they are referring to.
DeleteAmused... If we could have a 10% cut of all the money those women spend on Botox, surgeries, implants, hair extensions, etc. we would be VERY rich women. I originally started watch RHOC because I couldn't get enough of just staring at their faces. They all looked so weird to me. On the surface attractive, but like something wasn't quite right.
I too am a reality junkie!
DeleteThis is a random post for Ed.
DeleteEd, I recall that you mentioned in the recent past liking (among others) "Everybody Loves Raymond". I recently watched a documentary called (I'm pretty sure) "Exporting Raymond" about a Russian television company attempting to adapt "Raymond" for Russian audiences with the help of the show's original American creator and writer (whose name eludes me at the moment). Anyway, it was very funny and interesting--got some independent film award of some sort. Check it out if you can, you'll be glad you did.
Hello Bemused,
DeleteThanks! I really liked that show a lot. Of course, there were several characters that I could relate to on a very familiar level (particularly Doris Roberts!) My favorite episode of that show was when Raymond bought his wife the PMS relief pills. Hysterical!
I will own up to my Real Housewives enjoyment. I like watching their clothes, purses, and shoes. Tapioca Brown
DeleteI enjoy watching Real Housewives-love their clothes, shoes, and purses. That was funny what someone posted about Robyn getting etiquette lessons from David Tutera. There isn't anything graceful about Robyn.
DeleteI am a wee bit skeered of clowns, but that picture is fun!
ReplyDeleteThat picture is a scream, literally!!
DeleteIt is! Twisted Sister did an AMAZING job capturing the family in a snarky-but-not-over-the-top way! :-)
Delete
ReplyDeleteI am trying to think of what to dress my 10 yr old daughter and her 7 yr old brother as for
Halloween. Ideas anyone?
Sonny & Cher! With the girl being 3 years older the difference in height should be just about right.
DeleteSonny and Cher is a great idea! Laurel and Hardy?
DeleteHow about Lilo & Stitch? Stitch is my all-time fave Disney guy. :-)
DeleteHow about Bert and Ernie? Or bacon and eggs?
Deletea chef and a slice of pizza...
DeleteKody and Meri or Kody and Robyn. :oD
DeleteMr & Mrs Potato Head!
Deletedj
Love me some Little Couple and also love Duck Dynasty.
ReplyDeleteThe LC people seem very genuine from what little I've seen of them.
DeleteWe like DD too. :)
I only started watching the Little Couple a few months ago - shortly before they went to China to get their adopted son - also a little person. He is absolutely adorable! Before too long they should be getting their anticipated adopted daughter from India - also a little person. Although some of the situations & activities seem to be set up in conjunction with TLC, I don't believe that these people are acting out a script. I love the fact that the first six weeks at home in Texas with their son was without cameras and outside visitors - so they could really bond as a family. It's fun to watch these two adults - who were the only little people in their families - learn how to be parents. Also interesting to see her at work in the NICU - climbing up on a step stool to see into the incubators.
DeleteI also confess to watching the Duggars, and will watch whatever polygamists TLC brings out, but my "guilty pleasures" tend to be Survivor and Amazing Race. I only watch those two on line, because the closed captioning is much more accurate and current than on TV. I got hooked the first year on Big Brother, but haven't watched it since. I watched enough of Toddlers & Tiaras to have a better understanding of Jon Benet Ramsey's life in pageants, but they aren't my cup of tea. The only parts of the Gypsies, Real Housewives, Wedding Dresses, etc. that I've seen are the promos. Oh, yes, I do watch HBB sometimes. There's a lot of love in that family, even though I think they go to pretty great lengths to emphasize their salt-of-the-earth habits and manners (or lack thereof - LOL)
I saw the first two episodes of The Michael J. Fox show this week. I think it has great promise for educating the public about Parkinson's disease, in a humorous way. Somebody else mentioned "Call The Midwife" on PBS. I love that show! Am also fond of "Bletchley Circle" and most of the Masterpiece Mystery series, but I never got into Downton Abbey.
SW is really the only current reality show I follow and just for the snark benefit. I've been watching older reality series either on TV, Netflix or YouTube. PBS made some interesting ones that are well worth hunting down. Frontier House (2001) is excellent. just compelling viewing. I'm watching Texas Ranch House (also PBS) right now. Let's just say that the main dude and esp his wife are well, asshats. I have Edwardian Country House (Manor House) on my favorites list to watch afterward.
DeleteI will never tire of TLC's series Property Ladder (2005-07) which captures so perfectly the height and pop of the Real Estate Bubble. Most if not all of the flippers are total idiots! it's hilarious!!!
I have just learned that I have a cousin, Dennis R Short (deceased) who after a growing up in Southern California in an average LDS family, joined the polygamous group led by Joseph Alexander. Dennis was already married and his wife would not allow him to take another wife, but they let their daughter marry Joseph Alexander. My cousin Dennis apparently wrote a book called "For women Only" and I have asked my library to locate a copy for me through InterLibraryLoan. It appears to be a rule book for good plural wives. His daughter was young when she married Alexander and he died a few years later, and I wonder what became of her.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=5110036275&searchurl=an%3Ddennis%2Br%2Bshort%26amp%3Bbsi%3D0%26amp%3Bds%3D30%26amp%3Bsortby%3D1
DeleteMy husband wanted to fly to Las Vegas during the Eid break in a couple of weeks... Meatloaf is doing his final tour there and my husband is a major fan! I would have gone, if only to see Meatloaf, then have an opportunity to drive by the Cuddle-sac and glimpse the Browns in all of their polygamist-drama glory! lol! And, maybe to meet Christine Marie and any others from the SWB who are near the LV area! Ahhhh... one can dream! I don't particularly fancy a 12-15 hour flight back to the US! ;-)
ReplyDeleteHow fun would that be!
DeleteI love Meatloaf, my favorite song Two out of Three Ain't Bad
DeleteIs that song about Kody and his wives season 1?
DeleteMine too! It always brought tears to my eyes.
DeleteI have just learned that I have a cousin, Dennis R Short (deceased) who after a growing up in Southern California in an average LDS family, joined the polygamous group led by Joseph Alexander. Dennis was already married and his wife would not allow him to take another wife, but they let their daughter marry Joseph Alexander. My cousin Dennis apparently wrote a book called "For women Only" and I have asked my library to locate a copy for me through InterLibraryLoan. It appears to be a rule book for good plural wives. His daughter was young when she married Alexander and he died a few years later, and I wonder what became of her. ~bunhead57~
ReplyDeleteVery interesting bunhead, I hope you can get your hands on the rule book - interesting read, I'm sure.
DeleteI live in the town that Alexander Joseph and his families lived in. There are still several people named Short living here too. When Alex died, he had seven wives and several of them still live here. The others moved away. What was your cousin's name?
DeleteWow! It's turning out to be a very small world! I hope you can find the answers you are looking for... Perhaps you will make some interesting family connections along the way! :-)
DeleteAnon 4:43. I don't know the name of the daughter, father was Dennis R Short. I know it is written down somewhere, but I can't get at it at the moment. I am not sure if Dennis had any sons, we had gotten quite distant by then. Dennis and I would be 2nd cousins.
DeleteI remember that book Unknown. It was the biggest mess of garbage I have ever read. It compared the relative power of men to women, as comparable to that of women to their children or children to their pets!!! It still make me want to scream! Even as a believing polygamist it made me furious.
DeleteWait - is it Joseph Alexander or Alexander Joseph?
DeleteUnknown, here is a link to an old People magazine article about Joseph Alexander. Maybe something written in the article will jolt your memory and you'll remember Dennis R. Short's daughter's name. http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20065228,00.html
DeleteThat article was from 1975 so it could be that he hadn't married Dennis' daughter yet. Also wanted to tell you that I found an ole e-bay listing (it was cached) of his book "For Women Only" that was being sold by an antiquarian book dealer. Upon further searching I found out he wrote another book called "For Men Only". http://ldsmovement.pbworks.com/w/page/15644261/Church%20of%20Jesus%20Christ%20in%20Solemn%20Assembly It's near the bottom of the linked page.
This is another of his books on Amazon for $71.86: http://www.amazon.com/Questions-Plural-Marriage-Bibliography-References/dp/B000HN7Q0M
If you know all this, I'm sorry to have wasted your time!
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=ntt_athr_dp_sr_1?ie=UTF8&field-author=Dennis+R.+Short&search-alias=books&text=Dennis+R.+Short&sort=relevancerank
DeleteHere is the link to his books on Amazon. You have to scroll past the Dennis R. Short that writes computer books.
His name was Alex Joseph. He converted to LDS as an adult, then AUB in Pinedale, MT. He was kicked out of the AUB for marrying women without permission of the church leaders. He then started his own religion based on polygamy and settled in southern Utah. He claimed to have married over 20 women during his life but had 7 when he died in 1998. There were several other polygamous families that settled in the town but once Alex passed away and the kids grew up and moved away, the polygamous aspect has faded. As a side note to the Brown Family- forum posters have wondered if any of the Brown kids will follow into polygamy. Of the 22 Joseph kids, none are practicing polygamy.
DeleteThe book is for sale:
Deletehttp://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=5110036275&searchurl=an%3Ddennis%2Br%2Bshort%26amp%3Bbsi%3D0%26amp%3Bds%3D30%26amp%3Bsortby%3D1
Info on Alex Joseph:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Joseph
Movie info including all the names of the wives:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0219489
Interesting article about Alex Joseph and his wives:
http://www.saradavidson.com/articleC2.html
I have a inter library loan request out for the book -- I ain't buying it!!!
DeleteThanks for the People link, Funky. There was also a TV news piece on the group too - perhaps in the mid1980's
DeletePictures and more re: the wives of Alex Joseph
Deletehttp://mormonhair.tumblr.com/tagged/alex-joseph
You're quite welcome :-) I hope you can find out the name of your cousin's daughter.
DeleteIf anyone is in the mood for some hilarious drama, Kanye West and Jimmy Kimmel have a great twitter war going on.
ReplyDeleteKanye is such an ass... I think he and Kody took lessons at the same place...
DeleteHello Anon,
DeleteMy money is on Jimmy.
Kanye and Kody actually have a LOT in common. Both are classless men with no taste. They both believe they have style and can dress themselves but get it all wrong. Both are closet gay. Both have children with women they are not attracted to. Both are douche a-holes. etc. etc. etc
DeleteOHHH Sounds like an episode for Wife Swap. Kanye can have Meri, Christine, Janelle and Robyn and Kody gets Kim for a week.
DeleteHahahahaha.... @Canadian Ginger... Now THAT is a VERY funny thought !!! hahahahaha
DeleteSad thing is Kody would do it on a whim. Everything for the Almighty Dollar.
DeleteLobotomized - I think you should break out of your shell and tell us what you REALLY think. LOL.
Delete(By the way, I 100% agree with you.)
really wouldn't be a trade-off as they're too much alike and so are the airheaded clueless women. Need to put a "man's man" in the mix as well as a "strong independent and emotionally healthy woman" for it to be a HUGE contrast!
DeleteAnon 10:42 -- probably would put a nail in the Brown marriages. Remember how wistfully Meri looked at Joe Darger after that plyg joint vacation episode. You could tell she wanted someone who actually took charge as a husband. I think Christine was interested as well.
DeleteA Plygermick: The AUB Snuck Into Prime Time Through TLC
ReplyDeleteA poser named Kody gained fame
Four women are part of his game
They can’t give it up
Cuz they’d lose all their stuff
And, he’ll never take any blame
A woman in debt hatched a plan
She enchanted that horny, small man
“I’ll be famous and wealthy,
It pays to be stealthy!
Oooo! Acrylic nails for my hands!”
The 4 ladies live in huge homes
They see where Kody-boy roams
He prefers his new “toy”
What a stud, that small boy!
Yet he never learned how to use combs
Kody loves his cookies, you see
Just not baked by Wife number Three
‘Tho she makes the best candy
Kody Boy is just randy
His new bride gets all his whoopeee
It’s hard to pretend that you’re happy
The new bride and boy are so sappy
It’s so hard to keep sweet
When your heart feels defeat
She still believes monogamy’s crappy
Meri strokes her expensive wet bar
From the window, she spots Kody’s car
He’s with Wife Number Four
Getting ready to score
Meri’s no longer the star
Wives One and Three hurt a great deal
What a shame they are bound with a seal
To reach Celestial Glory
They bought the plyg story
And all Joseph Smith taught is so real
Janelle likes to go to the gym
But is it for her or for him?
She still promotes that small man
And does all that she can
If her light’s on, is it dim?
The Browns have a secret; that’s true!
They obey all of the AUB’s rules
They keep all of this hidden
And do as they’re bidden
They treat us like gullible fools
OMG!!! Hahahahahahahaha!!!! This is GREAT!!!! Laughing so hard I am crying... I think I need to pee... hahahahahahahahahahahaha...................
DeletePriceless, just priceless
DeleteHYSTERICAL!
DeleteBRAVO !!!! *clapping* !!!
DeleteGiltee Guilt, I want to see an animated version of this..........!!!
Soooooooooo Good !!!!
Awww, thanks Cara and Anon 4:57. :D
DeleteI think I want to change "Plygermick" to "Plygerdick" though.
Had a blast reading that.... amazing!!! So true so it's funny and sad at the same time.... hahahaha!
DeleteThat is great!!!
DeleteThat was fantastic!
DeleteGiltee Guilt, I stand and applaud you!!!
Delete"His new bride gets all his whoopee"...sooooo FUNNY. Remember the "Newlywed Game" and the constant "make whoopee" references? I was just a kid when I saw that show and when I asked my mom what "whoopee" was, she asked me what I thought it was--why would someone say "whoopee". "Because they're having a good time?" "Yup, that's it!"
FABULOUS job --- SO FUNNY!!!
DeleteLol!!! That was amazing!! Meri, having to stroke her wetbar instead of her husband, priceless!!
DeleteCLASSIC!
ReplyDeleteI am deaf. :-) I remember my first year in a residential school fort he deaf. Boys sat on one side of the auditorium and girls, the other. Houseparents sat in the middle! The girls were forced to wear curlers to bed on Saturday night. When I asked why, I was told we had to be "pretty for God". I thought that was so strange because my mother at the time was an atheist. The deaf world for me is very restrictive.
ReplyDeleteVery interesting. I'm so glad you've joined us here as I've enjoyed your posts about how being deaf has challenged your upbringing. And, I'm sure, also helped you become the wonderful woman that you are. ;- ) Keep the comments coming.
DeleteIn watching this show, I'm like the meditator, she doesn't believe a word of this mess. Of all the wives Meri is the only legal married wife. The others are just mistress. The other wives as well as Cody treat Meri as if she doesn't even exist. Cody walks over her and just tolerates her existence. She's very nice, caring and accommodating and she's taken advantage of. Cody is a cocky s.o.b. Cody leans towards one wife often and treats Meri like dirt on the bottom of his shoe. I hate how she's being treated.
ReplyDeleteIt seems to me like Meri is being treated much better than Christine and Janelle. Meri is the one that got the vacation in Mexico. Meri got a huge house just like everyone else and according to the way we've been told the money is split, Meri gets the same amount as women with 6 children.
DeleteShe doesn't take care of her bonus children and is now an empty nester. Seems like she's being treated pretty okay.
I agree Funky Town. I see Meri as being treated very well and Janelle and Christine getting the short end of the stick in many ways.
Deleteyeah, why do you think the builder's consensus of Kody's relationship with Meri as "accommodating" her? you better believe that's what he has to do w/the only legal wife who can really make his life and sister wives' lives hell in a legal divorce!!
DeleteI saw a license plate the other day... "4COOKIES". I strained to see if it was the Kodster but couldn't tell for sure. But then again what would he be doing in Minnesota!!! :)
ReplyDeleteEscaping?
DeleteWe don't want him in Minnesota!
DeleteFor those that have not gone to the FB page for Ed's 2nd book, It Rocked! Recollections of a Reclusive Rock Critic. We do a daily song Challenge... anyway, a young man (lost boy living in CA) has become a friend of a lot of us over the last few months. he has had a struggle w/ drugs and in 8 months clean. so he put the following on the Song Challenge just now... "i will never win your somg challenge but you are givin me some good new music!" ..... made my heart beam ... knowing that almost ALL of the music we list is quite old... it is nice that we can help him gain a love of music ... GOOD music.. not the crap they play today... hahaha... anyway, just a heart warming story I thought I would share:)
ReplyDeleteJust a thought, but I would LOVE to see Uncle Arthur from Polygamy USA do a counseling session with the Browns... ;-)
ReplyDeleteI'd rather see him throw his boot!!
Delete"Marriage isn't about you. It's about US." Boot to the head.
Deleteyeah, i wasn't impressed with Uncle Arthur's "counseling" session w/his own son. he's very domineering and opinionated and old school dinosaur chauvinistic. also, there's a good reason his daughter is distanced and for the most part estranged from him as well. there's only "the Uncle Arthur way" and the "wrong way." also, the fact that he's still making babies w/new young wives creeps me out.
DeleteTwo Questions:
ReplyDelete1) Is anyone else as terrified of clowns as I am...?
2) I feel a little foolish asking this, but what is the difference between a husband in a polygamist family who may have several "wives," although only the first is legal, and a man who travels the country and marries several women and ends up serving prison time for being a bigamist? Wouldn't the first woman he married still be his only actual wife?
If the man that travels the country gets actual marriage licenses for his other wives, then that is bigamy. When the bigamist takes out marriage licenses, the law sees them all as wives from what I know.
DeleteKody and crew don't get marriage licenses, only have their ceremonies which eliminates bigamy charges.
I *think* (and you all correct me if I'm wrong) that for the bigamy charge like you said, the dude ACTUALLY marries each woman. Like skirts around the laws, falsifies documents, etc to get an actual state marriage license. Hence, Bigamy.
DeleteWhereas with Kody you have a guy "marrying" people in a ceremony with no more clout than when I had a pretend wedding with a pillow groom in my front room as a 7 yr old. Call it a wedding if you want but.....everyone knows it is fake. ;)
Oh, yes, I'm still afraid of clowns.
DeleteJust like Kramer.
The difference is because the guy bothered to take out marriage licenses and marry the other women. IF the traveling guy had only married the 1st woman and just had mistresses in other cities there would be no difference.
DeleteThanks for everything you'll have done.
ReplyDeleteWhat's the difference between a guy who simply fools around constantly and has dozens of kids with dozens of women?
ReplyDeleteJust call me Sunshine
He's more honest, it's all about the sex but the pollywags pretend it's about religion, Boolsheet!
Deletethat's why i LOVE Joanne Hanks keeping it real w/her own personal plyg experience in her book, "IT'S NOT ABOUT THE SEX, MY ASS!" lol - a most EXCELLENT informative read.
DeleteI'm just watching the show. I'm a traditional married woman. I'm trying not to be judgemental hey this is what works for them, what makes them happy. But I had a problem when kody told his daughter that the college she chose wasn't a school for a kid with 17 siblings. He shouldn't not have 4 wives and 17 kids if you can't provide. Yet you are on here designing jewelery for your wives?! This is money that could pay for your daughters education! I'm sure after 3 to 4 years they are getting paid good money from tlc. This man started going on about his retirement! How selfish is that! I'm disgusted and the wife kept saying how the man is never around to talk about his daughters future. I have been married almost 15 years and I couldn't imagine sharing my husband that way. Its too much, he needs to get it together. If you can't finacially support 4 wives and 17 kids don't add a 5th. I just saw online he is thinking of adding a 5th. But your daughter can't go to the college she dreamed of attending.
ReplyDeleteThere once was a plyg dude from Lehi
ReplyDeleteWho looked a hellava lot like a Yetti
He really thought he was cool, he thought he was *IT*
When In realty, he was just a POS.
that was beautiful :)
DeleteBrought a tear to my eye.
DeleteThey legalized alcohol and cigarettes in order to regulate them. I wish polygamy were legal, it then could be regulated better. These plygs obviously think the are above the law of the land. They hate the government but still want to bleed the beast. I personally am so angry, I cannot believe that an estimated 27 million dollars a month is spent on supporting this " life style". If it were legal people would still not put the father on the birth certificate so they can get benefits for being single mothers. These plygs think it is ok to lie..... I just dont understand..... They can lie and go to heaven??? Thou shalt not bear false witness. These people would still lie to the government even if it were legal. There is no point in doing any thing....... Just a whole bunch of lying leaches who feed on all of our wallets.... I dont know what the answer is to solve this problem but I am pissed!!! when I was pregnant I worked, I was the bread winner while my husband was in school, he graduated 2 days after i gave birth.I was put on bedrest a month before I was to deliver, I only had 3 months maternity leave, meaning I had to go back to work when my dear sweet baby was 6 weeks old . I had to work in order to have insurance for the family. My husband was looking for work. I decreased my hours at work in order to spend more time with the baby and have child care so my husband could search for a job. When I decreased my hours the insurance rate increased. I was paying double and working less. practically my whole paycheck was paying for insurance. I live in Utah, I was told that I should apply for insurance assistance when I was pregnant. I looked into it, but could not because I had a job that offers insurance.......So... my whole paycheck went to paying for insurance. We were in debt, swimming in bills, surprisingly with all the stress I did not have postpartum depression, thank goodness.The happy ending is, my husband found a job by the time our baby was 5 months old. but living on practically nothing for 2 months with a new born baby, was so hard....... . and I wouldve made more money, if I didn't have a job and was a contributing member of society. I could've had medicaid, food stamps, wic..... the whole works, If I was unemployed. There is certainly a problem with the way things are, Insurance needs reformation and so does the way people who don't work are rewarded. aaaah now I feel better. Just had to rant. I am thankful for what I have, a wonderful hard working husband, a beautiful healthy baby, a job and sister wives blog.
ReplyDeleteI'm just enjoying this fine fall weather. We are planning to take a nice drive tomorrow. I love the fall festivals and footbal.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure if I just misunderstood, but in the one episode, the family said their marriage counselor from Utah specialized in plygs. But then later in the episode, she said she never counseled a plural family until she met the Browns. I smell something fishy! Anyone else catch that?
ReplyDeleteOh yes I caught that, and am working on the review of the episode now. I had it completed then lost it when my personal computer blew yesterday. Pat said she really didn't know about polygamy before she met the Browns 5years ago. However, she worked with the Safety net for years beofre that. More hopefully in a few days. But, I will say, many have said she is a really nice lady.
DeleteTalk to the journalist Andrea Emmett Moore (author of God's Brothel) about how "nice" Pat Merkley is. Andrea says that Pat and her pro polygamy buddies would go to meetings where Andrea was speaking, and heckle her. (Probably before Pat's Safety Net days.)
DeleteI'd be really interested to see the results of a poll asking if people think polygamy should be decriminalized as a matter of religious freedom.
ReplyDeleteI have deeply ambivalent feelings about it. First, when we're talking about what goes on between consenting ADULTS, I think legislation has no place in the bedroom. Secondly, I think Americans have a responsibility to act with the utmost care when circumstances edge in on questions of Constitutional rights (you know, that whole "eternal vigilance" thing). I don't want anyone telling me how to practice my spiritual beliefs, so I get nervous about other people's spiritual beliefs being criminalized.
On the flip side, of course, there are some behaviors that can't be sheltered under the auspices of religious belief, period. For example, I can't legally sacrifice puppies and kittens in my front yard because I claim that my religion tells me to so. The truly awful things that we hear of happening in fundamental polygamous groups are ALREADY ILLEGAL, so keeping the practice of plural marriage illegal doesn't prevent the hideous dark behaviors anyway.
I'm not certain that I can logically conclude (and I'm actively kicking these notions around, a lot--open to all ideas) that decriminalizing or legalizing plural marriage would necessarily create WORSE situations for the adherents, per se. That is to say, the bad guys are going to do bad things either way.
The primary reason I see for keeping plural marriage illegal is for sorting out the legal ins-and-outs for families when things don't work out. Family law is a snarled morass even for a world of monogamous people. Imagine the ramifications of polygamous family law. Oy.
I do think that, in practice, polygamy creates a miserable and twisted situation for most women, regardless of the shangri-la sisterhood they pretend they are living in. But then, there are practices in several other religions I could name that ALSO create what I consider to be miserable and twisted circumstances for the adherents. It's a sticky wicket.
And if polygamy were to be de criminalized it would be easier for all the other polygamist religions to practice it openly here.
DeleteI have had the same dilemma as you. I don't believe it should be legally recognized but I am torn about decriminalizing it. As a child of mixed race decent, I would not be here if the laws decriminalizing interracial marriage were not over turned.
DeleteI don't want it legalized because of the strain it would put on things. The tax laws, child custody issues and insurance issues. Basically it would makes things complicated with regards to the law. I just don't know and I feel like a bad person because I'm torn. My heart breaks when I heard Kollene, Willie, Christine Marie, Kristyn and other speak. My heart is telling me keep it illegal!! But when I think about it intellectually, I just can't 100% commit. Glad I'm not the only one who thinks like this.
I'm just going to keep reading and analyzing in my head. Thanks for posting. It made me feel better about being conflicted.
"The truly awful things that we hear of happening in fundamental polygamous groups are ALREADY ILLEGAL, so keeping the practice of plural marriage illegal doesn't prevent the hideous dark behaviors anyway. "
DeleteWow. That really hit home.
underage marriage, physcal abuse, sexual abuse all fit the bill, there are already laws against it.
Why aren't they being enforced in the state where Polygamy is specifically Illegal?
If this type of abuse runs rampant in Utah where the laws prohibit even calling oneself Polygamist (meaning you don't have to have more than one marriage certificate), then I would think that the probelm is Enforcement....the Executive Branch of the government, not the legislative branch.
Those interested in activism ought to be focused on Enforcement instead of just chasing the decriminalization straw man that the Plygs are throwing out.
If the laws against under age marriage and abuse were enforced then things would get better. Decriminalization is a red herring
I heard Rebecca Musser author of "The Witness Wore Red" and former child bride of Warren Jeps father, (yuck, double yuck) last night on the radio. She talked about what a sexual freak he was and happy he had other wives, the more he had the more she didn't have to be with him (another double yuck). She talked about the intimidation, the mind control and how she escaped all by her lonesome, didn't even say goodbye to her Mother. She was rally brave, climbed over a wall and hid until she felt free enough to flee. What an insightful young woman, can't wait to read her book.
ReplyDeleteI can see how Kody controls with his temper, and his continual focus on himself. I do hope Janelle has an epiphany and flees like Rebecca. These men are sexual deviants and what's telling is they always go younger never the opposite.
She also said that the true name for a lot of the crimes going on in polygamy is sexual trafficing. She makes so much sense when she states that. It is a crime that will get even the hardest hearts to melt. It will get through to so many people that this is a horrible crime, not just a "lifestyle choice."
DeleteI checked out their SW Closet Jewelry and it is quite fugly, very expensive, and cheap looking. Thought there was a bigger selection but there wasn't.Shows how not bright they are, they are getting free advertising so why not be more creative and industrious. No wonder Janelle wants no part of it.
ReplyDeleteexactly annon 9 45.. a tv show to promote your business and its really lacking in depth of product and
Deleteun appealing in its presentation compared to other online jewelry store. No effort to research jewelry terminology or description. They copied the clauhdau slapped a big price on it and hoped for the best. The thing that gets me the most is taking money and not shipping for 30 days, no way to contact them(they do this on purpose and blame the host company) and they get away with it.
What I've noticed the most is that in the earlier seasons we saw a lot of family activities, like the camping, the dinners celebrating different occasions and things that all the adults did together, like the miniature golf outing. We don't see that much anymore which really takes away the family flavor we got in the beginning.
DeleteIf this lifestyle is so wonderful for everyone then why don't we ever see them interacting as an entire family or groups of the kids? Most likely the teens are not into that type of thing anymore, but there are plenty of younger kids that would be and no, I don't count burning Kody's bag as a family event!
Kody is less of a husband than Janelle and Christine are wives. In fact, they are more wives than many people who get the respect of carrying that title simply because of a piece of paper. I find it sad that people are unable to separate their lack of respect for the Browns (which I share) and the right of people to define their own personal relationships regardless of laws that can and do change periodically.
ReplyDeleteboy is that the truth annon 10 38, kody is less of a husband, and father no matter his drivel at the panel about no less rhen anyone he knows or as janelle chimed in, monogamist. The only thing they insist on dividing equally without equality is money..you could write a book im sure about meri justifications for more money than the wifes with more kids
DeleteFour things:
ReplyDelete-I'm reading Kristyn Decker's book. I'm getting the same headache I got when reading Carolyn Jessop's book.
-Why do Meri and Kody have the same hair?
-Does anyone follow the Duggar family?
-Does anyone watch Ghost Adventures for the LOLZ?
Maybe it's the fact that Meri and Kody share the same hairdresser, but I'm not sure. I know the same lady is now styling Robyn's hair also.
DeleteKody is chanelling his feminine side.
DeleteLove the crazy Duggars. Mama Michelle needs to show the Cawleys some stuff about the buddy system, jurisdictions, and chore charts! I mean, come ON Cawleys. Three Moms? No home schooling? Older kids? They are doing it wrong.
The same person now styling Robyn's hair also styles whose? Kody or Meri?
DeleteThe same lady now does Kody, Meri and Robyn. She comes to their homes to do it.
DeleteThe same lady does all 3 of them. She comes to their homes.
DeleteI am reading various polygamy books. I try to keep in mind who is related to who. We need a polygamy book club spreadsheet to keep up with all the related peeps.
DeleteI'm surprised any stylist would take on Robyn after she wrote that harsh "open letter " to the monogamist hairdresser. Even though that encounter seemed totally fake, I would be afraid of getting trashed in her blog if her bangs were cut crooked!
DeleteI would be too Boston Corgi, but maybe the hairdresser figures all the free publicity she gets from the few times she's been on the show and all the tweeting she does to them will bring in more customers. Not sure, but she's always tweeting to them and often mentions what type of hair she's done recently, for example, the other day she talked about a perm that turned out beautifully. Could be she figures Brown followers will follow her on Twitter and maybe get some more business.
DeleteFunky Town,
DeleteI appreciate your reply. TY for the info about their hairdresser doing all 3 now.
You're quite welcome. My first reply was confusing but I eventually got it! Even their hairdresser is on Twitter now, making sure she tweets to the Browns a few times a week. *smh* Other than that she mostly tweets what her horoscope is for the day.
DeleteI join with others on this thread who find clowns, harlequins, jesters etc. creepy and scary
ReplyDeleteThe Klown Krew!!! Kinda creepy, but very funny! Did anyone else have problems figuring out which one was Kody and which one was Meri? BAAAAAAAAHHHHHH!
ReplyDeletedj
question for ExAUB: what's your story if i may ask? Were u in a polyg marriage? Raised that way? Still believe in the "mandate?" Just curious bc i always see you post but have never noticed whether or not you've told your story?
ReplyDelete~Air~
So, Can those of you that want polygamy legalized or decriminalized. Can you tell us how this is going to work in the case of other religious polygamists living here as well as the ones immigrating to the U.S?
ReplyDelete@PsychoSisterWife I know this is off topic but is your profile picture of Robyn's infamous teeth cleaning?? Ha ha ha!! Love it!
Deleteyep. lol
DeleteThe other morning I was dreaming that I was waitress in a diner-type restaurant (I've never waitressed before, so that was interesting.) As it turned out, the diner was somehow owned and operated by the Browns or their church or something (you know how it is in dreams...nonsensical stuff just makes some sort of weird sense.)
ReplyDeleteRobyn was waiting tables too; fortunately I didn't have to interact with her. But I was only there because I had agreed to cover an early-morning shift for Meri. The shift had ended and I was sitting at an empty table counting my tips, when Meri arrived and insisted that I had to give HER the tips, because it was technically her shift. I just looked at her, money in my hand, and said quietly (because I just knew she would throw a hissy fit if I was too obstinate), "That's not right. You shouldn't get the tips--they're mine." Meri glared down at me and repeated that the money was rightfully hers, and I understood that there was no recourse. I was sullenly handing that bitch my money when my husband's alarm clock went off.
Under the Banner of Heaven goes into the history of the Mormon church, and details the massacre of the Francher wagon train party who were slaughtered at Mountain Meadows by some of the more radical Mormons of the day. I'm currently reading a book on it that goes into how Brigham Young is the one who is to blame for it. He didn't directly order it, but he set the wheels in motion to see to it that all the immigrants were killed above age of 5. There were several underlying factors including the fact that the 12th wife of their most beloved apostle Parley Pratt [my 5th cousin BTW] claimed his killer was with the wagon train. They also claim that a lot of the people were from Missouri and had driven them out of there and Illinois, and they weren't going to take it anymore. Add to that the fact that the President was sending 2,000 troops to Utah to see to it that federal judges could be seated even if they weren't Mormons. Utah was as geared up for war in 1857 when this happened as the US was on Sept 12th.
ReplyDeleteAs far as the Mormon doctrine of becoming god, it's true. Their god is called Heavenly Father, and was once a man as we are [human being] who lived a perfect life, and somehow became a god when he died. He isn't the god evangelical Christians worship who is the Creator and Sustainer of heaven and earth. Their Jesus is the brother of Lucifer, and was born when Heavenly Father physically impregnanted Mary. They don't believe the Holy Spirit is God, rather a force or power. They believe that they will become a god when they die, and to be highly exalted, they need to have multiple wives--at least 3. The more wives they have, the more exalted they will become. They believe in the pre-existence of the soul that has to come to earth to prove itself, and the only way it can is to find a body to inhabit which is why they have so many children.
Among the other things Mormonism teaches is that you have to earn your salvation--they have something like 4,000 laws they have to keep including not drinking alcohol, caffeine, using tabacco, etc., etc. They also believe that since the gospel was taken from the earth, they have to be baptized for their dead ancestors which is why they are very big into genealogy--they're responsible for these peoples' salvation by gathering the info about the person so they can take it to the temple to perform rituals including baptizing for the dead for them.
If you want to know what about the Mormon beliefs, you can go to amazon.com and read my review under my name Hayley for the book The Godmakers called 'the more I read, the more shocked I become.' I had a lively debate with a good Mormon who tried to convince me we both believe in the same God.....
I do not at all want a debate here, so I will not reply further. But it must be stated that your "facts" are incorrect. I am an active member of the main Mormon church (NOT to be confused with fundamentalists). I won't address each inaccuracy step by step, but you are way off in your understanding of our beliefs. We believe in God, the eternal Father, in His son Jesus Christ and in the Holy Ghost. And we do most assuredly believe that they are Gods, or the "Godhead." We believe that God is the creator of the Earth and the universe. Instead of getting your info from a false book, perhaps talk to someone who is currently a member of the church. We are happy to clear up any confusion. I mean all of this very kindly and respectfully.
DeleteKindly and respectfully--there is no such thing as a "false book". You may not agree with the contents, but that doesn't make it wrong. In my experience active LDS members are the last people to whom one should look for answers about doctrine, etc. LDS are taught from one perspective only with many things overlooked or left out about historical mormonism. To paraphrase Rumsfeld, you don't know what you don't know. Not that anyone knows everything but many times it's easier to see the whole picture when you're not in it.
Deleteeven a lot of angry and bitter ex-mormons denounce Ed Decker's The Godmakers due to a lot of inaccuracies. that should tell you something right there. I would suggest a much more factually accurate in-depth learning about all the ins and outs of mainstream mormonism that is highly touted is the website MormonThink.com. Even the disgruntled exmo's swear by its accuracy as well as the current active mainstream mormons that update it and document it with accurate links. However, it's still full of information that the average mormon doesn't know as they're taught only whitewashed versions of their church history. This site has the accurate nitty gritty of it all but most mainstream mormons would find it a little startling and unsettling to say the least. It's an eye opener to a lot of them.
DeleteHi Redwood,
ReplyDeleteNot a dream analyst, but your dream does sound like the subconscious version of taxpayer outrage about paying others' debts with your *earned* money, when faced with the entitlement mentality of the debtor.
Wow, what a dream. Robin is on a Twitter spree right now. Trying to sell that damn joolery. Ugh.
ReplyDeleteAt the body sculpting exercise I thought janelle stood away from Kodester when ask to place herself where she is. And then when asked to place herself where she wanted to be, she placed herself directly in front of him. Then Kodester tried to make it a Kodester wheel with all in a circle. But that was NEVER janelle or Christine's wish. They just wanted to be noticed and appreciated by K. BTW I can't bear Robin.
ReplyDeleteRobyn pinned this saying on Pinterest :
ReplyDelete"Thank you for reminding me why I don't feel guilty that I cant stand you"
Three guesses as to who that was ment for.
Wow. That is harsh! I can think of a few people she meant that for!
Deleteso Christian Robyn
DeleteRobyn's been showing her true colors of her fake "keep sweet" and peacemaker personna more and more lately. which is fine - she really hasn't had any credibility for a long time now w/anyone who's able to see through her and what she's all about. i noticed the Brown teens themselves quickly became disillusioned with her and quit fawning all over her like they did initially. she's just an emotionally neurotic pathological liar imo. sadly, a product of her "joyous" plyg childhood in her parents "lifelong fairy tale marriage."
ReplyDeleteRobyn really showed her true colors when she elbowed Kody and said good answer when he said that he could be in a monogamous marriage with any of his wives. If I were any of the other woman, I would have to set Robyn straight. It was like she was saying oh yeah Kody tell them that and saying it outloud so that the others would question if he meant it or not.
DeleteI agree Tapioca. She also discredited Kody with that side comment, like he was putting on a good spin.
DeleteHere's the point I keep coming back to: Meri stated in an earlier season (sorry don't remember season or episode) that she would not live polygamy if not required to do so by her religion. So, obviously there's something about it that she doesn't like and/or she would prefer monogamy. Also, she's clearly stating that it's not a lifestyle choice for her, but something mandated by religion.
ReplyDeleteThe Browns have become more careful about this kind of thing in later seasons and pretend that they just like hanging out together, that's not true.
Interesting point Liz -- I'd forgotten she said this.
DeleteWhy oh why do those ladies wear such clunky orthopedic type shoes? I know nice shoes/sandals when I see them. These ladies all need 'shoe therapy'. Annnd that's all I'm going to say about that....
ReplyDeleteAaaaaand you think the rest of their outfits are any more fashionable? The shoes are just one symptom. And they are also designed for overweight people. I should know since I am one of those types myself LOL.
DeleteThis is not directed at you anon 4:38, but your post brought up a thought. I wonder how many of their tweets etc. are meant just to drum up talk and keep themselves relevant (especially now with all the new shows) and don't really mean anything at all? The Browns are like the boy who cried wolf. Time to quit listening and more waste time trying To figure out what this or that means it is probably just a plot to get attention back on them. In fact I bet they hear the calling for a 5th wife soon too or whatever can compete with the other plyg shows!
ReplyDeleteI might agree with you, except for the fact that Robyn has proven time after time, that she is incapable of thinking before she Talks/posts/blogs.
DeleteHi you all, brown family!,
ReplyDeleteShort and sweet! I watch yall and love children and moms n dad!
I am complety non judgemental, I am open-minded, and I think you all are well adjusted!
here is my thing, you all are trying to get a business going and I have an idea! Actually, an amazing idea that is going way awesome......for me.....i am not a company, I don't have a store front, I simply have an idea, but....reminder, I also have product.
Jody, meri, Janell, Christine, and robin.....love yall,
Sincerely, Tracey dority
watching season 3 where kody is talking about how he named his kids after cities, robyn says Dayton was named after Dayton, Ohio..ya think thats true?
ReplyDeletefrumpy shoes..they are next in the closet..and why all the request on FB for a cookbook? so these people look like they can sell a cookbook?
ReplyDeleteI think the one thing the Brown family has thought of is what to do with the children if one of them gets sick/dies after everything that went on with Meri's sister.
ReplyDeleteI also can't blame many of the wives in the polygamist communities for going to public assistance because I am sure they can't feed all of those kids on what little they get. "Bleeding the Beast" I am sure is just a way to justify the whole thing. I also don't think one can lump the Browns in with the Kingston Group and the FLDS. That is like grouping the KKK with fundamentalist Baptists.
Saw a commercial for a new TLC show called "Breaking The Faith". Breaking out of the FLDS Jeffs compound. Quick look on TLC's website yielded no information. Anyone else hear of it??
ReplyDeleteHas anyone here read The Lonely Polygamist? It's fiction and more lighthearted (mostly the subtle abuse we see from Kody's Klan), but an entertaining read nonetheless. It makes me think of Kody and friends would be like had they been forced to stay under same roof.
ReplyDeleteWhile trying to find out more info on the new TLC show, Breaking the Faith, I ran across this article, http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogstv/56920689-63/series-tlc-church-faith.html.csp which pictures 3 young women who left the FLDS back in Oct/Nov 2012. Not sure if they are 3 of the 8 men and women on the show, but found this article about them from Dec 2012, http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/55401520-78/helen-holm-allie-flds.html.csp I found it very informative as to what had been going on in the FLDS a year ago.
ReplyDelete